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Posted By Discussion Topic: Fishermen take note

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stuballs
Nov-27-2020 @ 2:59 PM                           Permalink
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Wow was shocked to find this!!!!!


https://basg.online/angler-found-guilty-of-fishing-without-permission-on-norfolk-broad/?fbclid=IwAR326ubG6VpBPH1-6GZQHaJzfqb6cQROHtRrwebBYji14B09AF8qu2Qb_ps

Karen&Mike
Nov-27-2020 @ 3:52 PM                           Permalink
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During one of our rare boating trips this year (August) when happily mudweighted in isolation of Blackhorse Broad, we politely mentioned to a couple of chaps on a hire boat that their fishing was not permitted there. They seemed to be well geared up, not just a spot of holiday fishing with a cheap rod.  We referred them to the sign at the entrance and explained it was a private Broad.

I don't recall precisely the rude response we got but suffice to say it was along the lines of get lost,  you've got that wrong, we can fish wherever we want . I'm sort of used to that selfish me me me comment from the younger generation these days, many of whom do firmly believe that ther rights override anything and everything  else,  but this was a couple of chaps in their 50's at least. We didn't  argue, as not our issue to  enforce, but as the few weeks of  boating and summer continued, and we escaped to Blackhorse each time for some peace and solitude, we saw this every single time, often 2 or 3 boats there at one time, all fishing.

I'm assuming that the same principle applies here as is outlined in the news article. But who would enforce that on Blackhorse and is that why anglers have been simply ignoring the sign there because they believe  they wont/can't be challenged ?

I suppose in some cases a holidaymaker simply doesn't notice or read the sign and sees Blackhorse as tha same as everywhere else on The Broads. Be interesting to see what pans out re fishing permits as a whole, across the area.

Karen  

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

This message was edited by Karen&Mike on Nov-27-20 @ 3:55 PM

TerryTibbs
Nov-27-2020 @ 7:11 PM                           Permalink
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Karen, as the article suggests this is pretty much a landmark ruling, its long been accepted that any tidal water can be fished from a boat providing that the boat isnt anchored to the river/broad bed. Black house Broad and Wroxham Broad have long been the subject to dispute over this but has never been challenged as far as Im aware as the cost of doing so would be prohibitive. I'm not sure how the Police have become involved in this but they have and a Judge appears to have overturned a centuries old ruling.A sad day for not only Angling but could have long term consequences for Navigation.

Dave

if it is to be it is up to me.

Marshman
Nov-27-2020 @ 9:26 PM                           Permalink
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TT - thats not true - you have had to have a permit from Horsey Estates to fish Horsey in the winter for at least the last 20 years. It was put in place to limit the number of pike fishermen I believe and to keep control from overfishing.

Karen is right about Black Horse Broad although I have never been stopped from my little bit of dangling - Wroxham Broad also requires a permit officially I believe, but again never seen it enforced.

And its not tidal water either - the NTL limit is at the lower end of Candle Dyke on the Upper Thurne. Shown as such on the OS map if you need to check!



This message was edited by Marshman on Nov-27-20 @ 9:28 PM

TerryTibbs
Nov-28-2020 @ 6:31 PM                           Permalink
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Quite right Marshy, I should have thought before I posted, in my defence I was reacting to this paragraph in the original article
"So what does this mean for anglers who fish from bank or boat within the Broads Tidal waterways and who have claimed for years is free to fish being tidal water under the King John’s Magna Carta, 1215."
The situation on Wroxham is as you state, there is a permit but that is for fishing from the bank, Pike fisherman have for years fished it from boats and not paid unless moored or anchored. I have been challenged from the bank on Black Horse but ignored them and heard no more as do many fisherman each year.
As you say Horsey has had a winter fishing permit as does Marthem Broad but as you rightly state neither are tidal so the whole basis of the article was flawed.

Dave


if it is to be it is up to me.

webntweb
Nov-28-2020 @ 7:35 PM                           Permalink
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Magna Carta went through quite a few revisions over the years but most of it was repealed by the Statute Law Repeals Act of 1969, since when the right to fish in tidal waters has been deemed to be invalid.

Paladine
Nov-28-2020 @ 9:40 PM                           Permalink
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Could you be a little more specific. While the Statute Laws (Repeals) Act 1969 did repeal most of the Magna Carta, it left in force Article 37 (among others) which says:

"General Saving. Observance of these Liberties. Subsidy, in respect of this Charter and Charter of the Forest.

Reserving to all Archbishops, Bishops, Abbots, Priors, Templars, Hospitallers, Earls, Barons, and all Persons, as well Spiritual as Temporal, all their free Liberties and free Customs, which they have had in time passed. And all these Customs and Liberties aforesaid, which We have granted to be holden within this our Realm, as much as appertaineth to Us and our Heirs, we shall observe; and all Men of this our Realm, as well Spiritual as Temporal, as much as in them is, shall observe the same against all Persons, in like wise. And for this our Gift and Grant of these Liberties, and of other contained in our Charter of Liberties of our Forest, the Archbishops, Bishops, Abbots, Priors, Earls, Barons, Knights, Freeholders, and other our Subjects, have given unto Us the Fifteenth Part of all their Moveables. And We have granted unto them on the other part, that neither We nor our Heirs shall procure or do any thing whereby the Liberties in this Charter contained shall be infringed or broken. And if any thing be procured by any person contrary to the premises, it shall be had of no force nor effect."


I would think that fishing in public waters would be one such liberty and custom.

The Canal & Rivers Trust are of the same opinion:

"In the strict legal sense, the public only has a right to fish for free in the officially recognised fully tidal parts of rivers and in the sea, except where an individual owns a private right of fishery."   (source)

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)

Marshman
Nov-28-2020 @ 10:37 PM                           Permalink
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I know very little but do think Pally is closer to the truth - or even the Bishops, Arch deaconess or whatever! Clever stuff - just reading it gives me a headache.

But I don't even want to work out from that who can, or cannot charge other than I know where the NTL is on most rivers!!! (For whatever good that will do me !! )

webntweb
Nov-28-2020 @ 12:19 AM                           Permalink
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I took it from Norfolk Constabulary's report of the recent Horsey case. I realise in that case any argument for or against isn't valid as fishing is private, but to me the report inferred that the court came to the conclusion that the Repeal Act applied to any tidal water.

Paladine
Nov-29-2020 @ 8:34 AM                           Permalink
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Thank you. You mean this one https://www.Norfolk.police.uk/news/latest-news/angler-found-guilty-fishing-without-permission-norfolk-broad

I certainly wouldn’t base an opinion on a report which is quite so flawed. The case was about illegally fishing in Horsey Mere, which is not tidal. A ruling at a Magistrates’ Court is not binding on any other case.

There have been similar prosecutions in the past and I think the BASG is making something of a mountain out of a molehill. Trying to make themselves look important?

If this case was fully appealed, I would give regard to the final outcome, but I hardly think this decision will affect fishing in the tidal reaches of the Broads.

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)

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