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Posted By Discussion Topic: BA covid update

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Paladine
Mar-05-2021 @ 5:22 PM                           Permalink
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The enabling legislation for the changes on 8 March has now been published. The relevant section is at the end of page 4 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/247/pdfs/uksi_20210247_en.pdf

The change is the addition of recreation to the list of reasonable excuses for leaving your home, as follows:

d) to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation—
(i) alone,

(ii) with—
(aa) one or more members of their household or their linked household, or
(bb) where open air recreation is being taken as part of providing informal childcare for a child aged 13 or under, one or more members of their linked childcare household, or

(iii) with one other person who is not a member of their household, their linked household, or their linked childcare household…
"

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


This message was edited by Paladine on Mar-5-21 @ 5:31 PM

Forresters
Mar-06-2021 @ 10:00 AM                           Permalink
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To add a further aspect to this discussion and a by the by first.  I think I may have said before we have bought a static about 10 miles from our permanent residence and note there is the mother of all arguments in progress on Facebook about the 29th saying you shouldn't travel to your van you should stay local.  So not just boating.

For anybody, particularly the BA, who think from the 12th minimise is lifted and we can flock to our boats - it isn't!!!!  The only change is that longer journeys become more manageable because by staying on the boat you cut your journey in half.

This minimise travel if used to prevent or castigate people from travelling to their boats for whatever reason and home in the same day from the 29th, also stands from the 12th and does not disappear until step 3 on 17th May.

What the BA say on travel;
29th "There remains a requirement to minimise
travel and stay local."
12th "Silent"
17th "Silent"

What the .GOV paper says;
29th "Minimise travel. No holidays."
12th "Minimise travel. No international holidays."
17th "International travel - subject to review."

The difference is to allow holidays from the 12th.

Well from the 29th travelling to the boat is allowed just not to holiday on the boat.

For the record, because of circumstances we will not see our boat until May but aside from that being 250 miles away is a major issue.  I see no reason why those  living a shorter distance away should not visit their boat from the 29th.

The pace of life down there
suits us

Dzign
Mar-06-2021 @ 11:03 AM                           Permalink
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I do hope that we fare better than the Isle of Man has

L

Karen&Mike
Mar-06-2021 @ 1:22 PM                           Permalink
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It's interesting to note that elsewhere ( again I've been given this info as I am not a member of any other groups or forums ), a discussion on this very subject has been completely closed down/ locked by admin, with an instruction to all members to follow the government guidelines and the boating specific BA advice!  Somebody wanting to lick BA bottoms for their own ends maybe?

Anyway, as has been said earlier, it is great that we have given this topic a good "airing" here , and will continue to do so as it develops.

Karen



"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

Paladine
Mar-06-2021 @ 3:08 PM                           Permalink
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What does ‘local’mean?

If I might play devil’s advocate for a moment...

There is a major difference between what is law and what is guidance. HMG explains thus:

What is the difference between legislation and guidance?

To find out exactly what the rules are during the coronavirus pandemic, you need to look at both legislation and government guidance. Legislation sets out legal obligations and restrictions that are enforceable by law. If you do not abide by the legislation you are breaking the law. Guidance and advice is likely to be based on legislation (in which case it will be legally binding) and it might offer the best or most appropriate way to adhere to the law.

The law is what you must do; the guidance might be a mixture of what you must do and what you should do.


So, unless particular guidance reflects what the law actually says, it is not enforceable.

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020  is the governing legislation. It contains no reference to ‘staying local’, nor is ‘local’ defined therein.
  
The Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Dame Cressida Dick, asked for clarification of what ‘local’ means, after the PM went for a 7 mile bike ride, which was deemed to be lawful, but two women in Derbyshire were handed £200 FPNs for driving 5 miles for exercise (the FPNs were later rescinded).

These are some of the comments made by Ministers at the time (Jan 2021):

Home Secretary, Priti Patel: ...people should "exercise their judgment" when taking exercise and stay away from other people.

The Policing Minister, Kit Malthouse: ..."local means you can get there under your own steam". He added that a bike ride of 70 miles would be "fine in some circumstances" but said the public were expected to recognise what "local" meant. (Daily Telegraph 12 Jan 2021)

Cycling UK (with other cycling organisations) asked the Department of Media, Culture and Sport for clarification. The Minister for Sport, Nigel Huddleston, responded:

"As you are aware, the government’s current guidance regarding outdoor exercise states that people are allowed to leave their home to exercise outdoors, and should remain as local as possible.

As you state, people’s circumstances are different and so this guidance relies on people to use their common sense to determine what is and is not a reasonable distance for their outdoor exercise.

As we navigate these necessary new restrictions, we remain clear on just how important exercise is to people's health and wellbeing, whilst staying safe at home."  (Cycling UK)

Speaking about the Derbyshire case, human rights barrister Adam Wagner said: "There is no law against travelling to exercise. The guidance is not legally binding and the police have no power to enforce it unless it is reflected in the lockdown regulations which in this case it is not."

Everyone clear now? Good, so the next question is, how long is a piece of string?



"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)

Dzign
Mar-06-2021 @ 6:10 PM                           Permalink
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"If I might play devil’s advocate for a moment..."
As if lol


L

Forresters
Mar-06-2021 @ 8:48 PM                           Permalink
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So I have read said locked topic elsewhere. The majority are vastly of the same view as here that the BA advice seems incorrect and the suggestion is to follow GOV advice. I can’t understand why the discussion was closed down unless there was a load of comments deleted.

Just shows the depth of feeling hankering on getting back to where we are most at home. Nobody is looking to bend or ignore rules we just wish to understand the allowances and move on accordingly.

This period has shown to me the difference between those of us who use our boat in retirement as a bolt away or second home as opposed to use as a holiday home.  The government treat boats and caravans as holidays rather than homes.

There’s a massive difference to us and the feeling of imprisonment and denial of liberties is debilitating because you become so used to escaping to your alternative home in a regular basis rather than treating it as a holiday.

We will all get there in the end

The pace of life down there
suits us

pargeandmarge
Mar-07-2021 @ 11:28 AM                           Permalink
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Hi All
Old Parge had the Oxford Jab yesterday and is suffering a chronic side effect which is the need to be pampered.
Regards Parge  Playful

Alone1
Mar-07-2021 @ 12:49 PM                           Permalink
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The BAs advice is exactly that - advice and guidance as they have had it given to them by DEFRA. Other organisations have done the same - some with slightly different interpretations.
The police are the only ones who can enforce the law on COVID rules.

So - you follow what you think the guidance/advice/interpretation means - or your own interpretation. If you get it wrong then you may get a visit from plod if someone sees fit to report you for what they have interpreted you to be doing. You only have to read the press to see how busy the police are enforcing the rules.

I will be out excersing/recreationing on my boat soon. Luckily I can walk to it and it sails.

Enjoy!  Smile  boat-sail

Bob Huppendoun

There would be no life without water!!!

Marshman
Mar-08-2021 @ 10:31 AM                           Permalink
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New and subtly amended advice here

https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/news/coronavirus-covid-19

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