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Marshman
Mar-04-2021 @ 4:36 PM                           Permalink
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I don't think that the RYA interpretation is lenient - its merely repeating the guidance. "Minimise travel" is not the same as "stay at home" If I have a need to travel 200 miles then thats "minimising" travel if I have that need - I struggle anywhere that says I must still "stay at home"!

Now I have not any need to travel 200 miles as far as I am aware but if such a need arose, I would, taking necessary precautions en route. And at the same time, as its local I shall go down to the boat!!

As Andy said, it is disappointing to see this debate being stifled on another platform! Not sure I could see the need at that time. Surely thats what Forums are for - I didn't see it getting out of hand albeit a little repetitive.

Paladine
Mar-04-2021 @ 4:36 PM                           Permalink
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seventh-heaven, you might like to take a look here https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/update-on-new-social-distancing-rules

Last September, Matt Hancock made a statement to the Commons, in which he said,

"First, Mr Speaker, we are putting in place new rules on social contact.
We have listened to feedback – from the public and the police.
And we are simplifying and strengthening the rules, making them easier to understand and easier to enforce.

In England, from Monday, we are introducing the rule of 6.

Nobody should meet socially in groups of more than 6 – and if you do, you will be breaking the law.
This will apply in any setting, indoors or outdoors, at home or in the pub."


He went on to mention some exceptions to that rule.

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)

Paladine
Mar-04-2021 @ 4:40 PM                           Permalink
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I have only looked at the parts that relate to this discussion, but the RYA advice seems to be very balanced. I would question this bit, though:

Does working on my boat count as recreation and is it therefore a reason to leave home?

We do not currently believe that general boat maintenance falls within the intended definition of recreation, but where maintenance is essential to prevent risk of harm or injury it may qualify as a reasonable excuse for leaving home.”


Where can I find the HMG “intended definition of recreation”? As far as I am aware, ‘recreation’ has never been defined in any of the HMG Covid legislation. It's a rule of law that when no definition has been included in legislation words are given their usual meaning.

I have found the following dictionary definitions of ‘recreation':.

”A way of enjoying yourself when you are not working;

Something done for pleasure or to relax, or such activities generally;

Things that you do in your spare time to relax.


The ONLY reason I own a boat is for recreation, whether that’s by way of chugging down the river, or spending time cleaning/adjusting/improving/repairing it. That is not looking for a way round the regulations, it is a factual statement regarding the purpose of my boat.

Does any private owner here have any other reason for owning their boat?





"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)

ruby
Mar-04-2021 @ 5:54 PM                           Permalink
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Preaching to the converted over here. I have more fun trying to make it work better whilst on the mooring than many of the trips out we have .( When we were allowed to have said trips of course. )

Indeed my wife refers to the boat as my remote shed with all that implies .

Graham

seventh-heaven
Mar-04-2021 @ 6:29 PM                           Permalink
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Paladine - thanks for the link - however that appears to re-enforce my thinking that a rule of 6 is a rule of 6 and has no direct realtionship to households. I thought that I understood that the 2 households element of the rule is to allow more than 6 to be together if they are only from 2 households?

AndyH

Paladine
Mar-04-2021 @ 6:44 PM                           Permalink
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seventh-heaven, everyone must make their own assessment, but further into his speech Matt Hancock explained:

"For example, if a single household or support bubble is larger than 6, they can still gather."

That suggests to me that there is no problem with 6+ if they are from the same household, or a household plus support bubble. If there is more than one household (not including the bubble) involved, then the Rule of Six comes into play and there is a maximum of two households.

Examples:

Up to 3 from one household plus up to three from one other household - OK.

3 from one household plus one from 2nd household plus two from a 3rd household - NOT OK - as the maximum number of households gathering has been exceeded.

However, I have read in a number of on-line newspapers that six people from up to six different households will be allowed to meet up outdoors from March 29. I have seen nothing in the HMG guidance to support that interpretation.

Edited to add:


Continuing the trawl of guidance I found this, which is more detailed, https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-response-spring-2021/covid-19-response-spring-2021-summary#step-1---8-and-29-march , from which I have extracted (with my emphases):

Changes on 29 March

Social contact


The evidence shows that it is safer for people to meet outdoors rather than indoors. And this is why from 29 March, when most schools start to break up for the Easter holidays, outdoor gatherings (including in private gardens) of either 6 people (the Rule of 6) or 2 households will also be allowed, making it easier for friends and families to meet outside.

Step 3 - not before 17 May

Social contact

As part of Step 3, no earlier than 17 May, the government will look to continue easing limits on seeing friends and family wherever possible, allowing people to decide on the appropriate level of risk for their circumstances.

This means that most legal restrictions on meeting others outdoors will be lifted - although gatherings of over 30 people will remain illegal. Indoors, the Rule of 6 or 2 households will apply - we will keep under review whether it is safe to increase this.

As soon as possible and by no later than Step 3, we will also update the advice on social distancing between friends and family, including hugging. But until this point, people should continue to keep their distance from anyone not in their household or support bubble.


But there is still no sign of the legislation that will put all this into effect.



"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


This message was edited by Paladine on Mar-4-21 @ 8:10 PM

Jeremy-Aslan
Mar-04-2021 @ 10:19 PM                           Permalink
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It looks like Paladine edited his message, and I was looking for claritry  -  a bit like SeventhHeaven.  It may not affect me personally, but friends of mine are closely following what is allowed.

My understanding was that from (or not earlier than) 29th March it will be possible for social gatherings outdoors to be EITHER up to six people from as many different households as you like OR any two households, where there can be as many people as you like in each household.

So, I think it means you could have:
a. A couple hosting a gathering (a barbie, perhaps) in their own garden, with four friends from four outher households
or b. Two families, each with three children, meeting together outdoors, a total of ten people.
Is that right, or have I missed something?


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Forresters
Mar-04-2021 @ 10:21 PM                           Permalink
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The rule of six as has been indicated before limits the number of individuals meeting from multiple households to 6. If more than 6 then the maximum is two households (household includes bubble member)

Household A 2 people, HB 1 person & HC 2 = 5 in total is allowed as less than six

HA 3 persons, B 2 @ C 2 is not allowed as it is 7 from 3 households

3 couples from 3 households (6 in total) would be allowed.

The other issue to minimise travel from 29th March has been muddied by the BA using the instruction to avoid leaving your village as used in the stay at home requirement. Minimise travel becomes subjective but I think to most of us will be interpreted to mean travelling long distances is not on as it increases risk through tiredness as you can’t stay over and possibly means a number of stops. The other aspect is frequency of travel. So going to your boat every day is excessive.

Being subjective one persons right is another persons wrong. I repeat the BA using the stay at home guide for distance travelled really opens up antagonism. “Look at him travelling from home in Wroxham to his boat in Horning!! The BA are saying he should not leave Wroxham”. It is just wrong

The pace of life down there
suits us

steve
Mar-04-2021 @ 10:33 PM                           Permalink
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This help also

steve and vicky
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steve
Mar-04-2021 @ 10:34 PM                           Permalink
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No2

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