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warrior
Mar-04-2021 @ 12:37 PM                           Permalink
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Can anyone tell me if the rule of 6 people or 2 households that will be the rule on 17th May means that three couples from 3 households can book a boat.  I ask this question as a friend of mine has booked a Narrow boat for a week from the  17th May  for 3 couples from different households  totalling six people.  The ruling is not that clear.  I have scoured the Gov website, the B.A. and the Canals and Rivers Trust and still not managed to get a clear answer.  HELP..:)

Jason

L'sBelles
Mar-04-2021 @ 1:04 PM                           Permalink
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Seventh heaven wrote "On the CRT the following is from their COVID page - you will see that it does indeed state "stay local": "

Yes it does but you are missing my point.
The BNA state that there is an "instruction" and a "requirement" to stay local which is false!
The CRT state that you are "encouraged" to stay local which is a different meaning altogether and a more appropriate interpretation of the HMG or DEFRA directive.

Karen&Mike
Mar-04-2021 @ 1:17 PM                           Permalink
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Right, just catching up with this mornings further comments , in particular Seventh Heaven. I personally wasn't referring to the table , I was specifically referring to the final statement in the BA announcement (below) which appears before the table :

" Lockdown roadmap and the Broads

On 22 February, the Prime Minister announced the Government’s plan to begin the cautious easing of lockdown restrictions in England. Since then the Broads Authority, along with other inland waterway authorities, have been in consultation with Defra to produce guidance for boaters. This is shown in the table below.

Whilst the table shows that it is possible for some boating activity to resume during stage one, this is limited by the continued instruction to stay local which restricts travel to and on board a boat.

“Staying in your local area means stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live.”

So that's what the BA stated, but.....
... the requirement that staying in your local area means " stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live"  does not appear on anything I have read as published on the .gov website for the roadmap. The government actually state , as I have quoted earlier, that from the 29th March:

"people will no longer be legally required to stay at home"

and they then go on to say:

"people should continue to minimise travel wherever possible and should not be staying away from home overnight at this stage."

Now surely, if they government in their staged relaxing of restrictions did not want us to do anything other than what the lockdown rules state currently about leaving home and and only staying in your village etc, then they would have simply not lifted the legal requirmement to stay at home from the 29th at all. Easter will not provide a holiday environment for anyone as holidays and overnight stays are not permitted and hospitality is closed etc so anyone travelling to the the Broads (or any other location) for the day will not be crawling all over the local facilities bringing disease and dismay. As I understand it people have been visiting for the purposes of walking, kayaking, canoing, paddle boarding etc, during lockdown so are we saying they were all doing that in their own villages only? The likely Easter visitors will include private boaters who are desperate to check their boats not just externally but internally, and this represents pretty much zero risk to those lucky enough to actually live there. They will get on their own boats, touch their own possessions, use their own toilet and make their own drinks. Marinas can provide handgel at security gates and/or ask their customers to follow certain guidelines, perhaps even keeping any facilities like toilets closed until April.

We are all pretty much are decent human beings who respect and understand the need for rules. Private boat owners are also customers , of the marinas and the BA, and in any such situation, never mind the long slog that everyone has been through this last 12 months it is important to engage with people , surely this brings more mutual respect and regard ?

And this brings me back to the BA - throughout this pandemic they have often been too aloof, arrogant in fact, and thus alienating ! This latest announcement follows at least 2 others where they got it pretty badly wrong, and that inevitably has a consequence, which brings us to where we are today - mistrust, anger, argument, and even sometimes a rather sad division between locals and those who bring much to the local economy.

I will again say many thanks to those locally who have offered/given assistance to those of who have not been able to come. You know who you are and I for one will not forget that, whatever the disagreements are about rules and their interpretations.

Finally, I'm reminded of a little phrase my old boss used to say many many years ago when I was a young trainee in a sometimes difficult job -  always try and tell them what you CAN do, rather than focussing on what you can't. It will get you and your message further and keep communications positive.  

Karen

EDITED for typo

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

This message was edited by Karen&Mike on Mar-4-21 @ 1:52 PM

seventh-heaven
Mar-04-2021 @ 2:28 PM                           Permalink
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On the BA Corona information page it clearly states where the Stay Local definition comes from and it is in Govt advice.

“Staying in your local area means stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live.” Govt National Lockdown Stay at Home Guidance

Your point about why they have removed the stay at home restriction is in my understanding because there is a move to begin to allow recreation more genreally rather than the current restriction only leaving home for essential things including limited excercise.

I take your point about private owners generally not being a risk, but unfortunately as we have seen in the media there is enough of our population that can't be trusted to manage themselves and the risk they create and therefore the regulations sadly have to be down to the lowest common denominator. If you allow sensible people to travel more widely you have to be prepared to have everyone do that with the sadly predictable consequences.

Whilst I am very privileged to live here there are consequences on travel for us as well. My Mum and my in-laws both live in Yorkshire and could really do with some support from us at that moment. We have debated long and hard about when it is appropriate to visit them - I conclude not before 12th April when you consider the wider guidance and what it is trying to acheive.

I am fed up with all this as much as the next person - but it is absolutely clear that people can travel to their boats or hire boats from the 12th April - is it really that much of a sacrifice to wait those extra couple of weeks for the good of the whole?

P.S. It is good to see the reasoned good natured debate on here (and it has caused me to shift some of my views!) - elsewhere it has been shutdown with a statement just to follow Govt guidance. As our debate is showing - if it was only that simple!!!!

AndyH

This message was edited by seventh-heaven on Mar-4-21 @ 2:32 PM

Karen&Mike
Mar-04-2021 @ 2:45 PM                           Permalink
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Quick reply Andy as about to go out for daily excercise whilst it's Mikes "lunchtime" ( he's working from home).

I'm not disputing that the wording about local meaning your village town etc exists. And that's why our walk today is 2 miles from our house. What I'm saying is that I whilst that wording is  part of the lockdown rules currently,   it does not appear as far as I can see  in the rules (expected to be applicable) for the lockdown easing in terms of what is stated by the government for the stage due to come in from 29th March.

I agree we are having a good and reasoned debate and I'm grateful for that. I also agree the rules are rather muddied in places and can't account for every possibility. Hope you get up to see your family soon , we are in the same boat ( forgive the pun!)

Take care, Karen



"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

This message was edited by Karen&Mike on Mar-4-21 @ 2:58 PM

PAMPATHA
Mar-04-2021 @ 2:52 PM                           Permalink
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The RYA have just published a Covid 19 road-map to a return to boating.  This seems to put the information in clear and concise manner that everyone should be able to understand.

Loughrigg
Mar-04-2021 @ 3:11 PM                           Permalink
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Here's the RYA pdf....click the link.....RYA

Mike

'Who says you can't get 43 boats on Ranworth Island'
'Ubique Loquimur' - We Speak Everywhere!

L'sBelles
Mar-04-2021 @ 3:32 PM                           Permalink
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Blimey! The RYA guidance is hardly a precis, is it?
However, it does seem to win the prize for being the most lenient interpretation so far stating:
"People will no longer be legally required to Stay at Home, although we are still being advised to minimise travel wherever possible" from March 29th.

I can't imagine even on a boat forum like this one too many people shall have a yacht club in their "local" environs!

Paladine
Mar-04-2021 @ 4:06 PM                           Permalink
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Warrior wrote, ”Can anyone tell me if the rule of 6 people or 2 households that will be the rule on 17th May means that three couples from 3 households can book a boat.”

The Rule of Six means that more than six people together (with a few exceptions) is unlawful. The other bit is self-explanatory, no gathering of more than two households, regardless of the total number in the gathering.

So two households could gather, provided the total number of people did not exceed six, but if six people gathered from three or more households that would be illegal.

I think your friends might have to think again.


"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)

seventh-heaven
Mar-04-2021 @ 4:15 PM                           Permalink
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So there is another example where the clarity is not great! I had assumed that the rule of six was as before and could be six individuals!

More reading required!!

AndyH

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