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Posted By Discussion Topic: BA covid update

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L'sBelles
Mar-03-2021 @ 11:14 PM                           Permalink
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Karen wrote "Not fit for purpose?  or worse -  unfit through intended manipulation and misrepresentation   ?"

I think we all know the answer to that question!

At least with 'normal' district councils you get the opportunity to vote out your representatives every few years but with the BNA they, or the Secretary of State, would just fill the void with co-opted JP clones.

Marshman
Mar-03-2021 @ 12:00 AM                           Permalink
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As you would expect, the BA have placed their own interpretation on the guidelines. Bit sad really but to be honest did anyone expect them to do otherwise?

L'sBelles
Mar-03-2021 @ 12:38 AM                           Permalink
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Of more concern is that these 'directions' are meant to be produced in consultation with DEFRA which infers that either a HMG Department cannot fathom their own guidance or the BNA choose to ignore the DEFRA answers that they do not like.

For comparison this is what the CRT say about the same initial period of time:

"There is no change until Step 1 part 2, potentially from 29 March, when it is anticipated that the official stay at home order will end but people will be encouraged to stay local. Limited local boat movement may be possible but you should avoid travelling if your boat is not located close to where you live, and only those living aboard are permitted to make an overnight stay."

Considerably less draconian in tone!

seventh-heaven
Mar-04-2021 @ 1:48 AM                           Permalink
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You may consider the CRT statement to be of a different tone - but it is essentially saying the same thing. Does this not support the position that BA are merely trying to represent the Govt and DEFRA guidance and not trying to frustrate boat owners as many seem to suggest?

AndyH

Karen&Mike
Mar-04-2021 @ 2:12 AM                           Permalink
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Andy , the BA latest statement actually mixes up / misuses old wording relevant to the current lockdown, thrown in with the relevant changes in the lockdown lifting stages that are coming up. Wording that doesn't appear in the governments full statement or even their briefer versions for the next stages. They also infer that come the 29th, there is still that requirement,  which actually is not the case.  The legal requirement to stay home except for certain reasons disappears, or is due to, on that date. There are then guidelines around many aspects, including travel,  but that's a different matter entirely.

I cannot see why, yet again, the BA, in their position, choose to cobble together various bits and pieces of wordings, instead of sticking to quoting the rules verbatim. This in itself, and the previous size ten errors with other rule changes, do them no favours at all. They set themselves up for criticism and mistrust.

Hope you have a good season once everything is fully back to normal.

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

seventh-heaven
Mar-04-2021 @ 9:34 AM                           Permalink
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You are assuming that it is a BA message and yet the Canal and River Trust have given the same message including the "Stay local" element.

Both of these organisations took their text almost exclusively from the DEFRA guidance that they were given - if you look at the various sources including CRT, BA, British Marine and others it is clear even the format of the text is similar in the table form it is presented - although it is of note that British Marine have chosen to remove the "Stay Local" element even from the message for 8th March when this is clearly still a requirement in the central guidance.

This issue is that the guidance is still not as clear as we would like, and many people in the Broads local area are very worried that there will be a massive influx of people over the Easter weekend. This, in my view, is clearly not what Govt wants and is almost certainly why they have timed the next stage of 12th April to co-incide with back to school dates after what should have been the Easter school holidays. Ultimately Govt have to take responsibility for that - although I have an element of sympathy in that it is impossible to create national guidance that can exactly fit every situation.

So my point is, I think it is unhelpful to have this narrative that always blames BA regardless - whilst I certainly do not agree with all they do, and am prepared to take them to task in the appropriate forums, I do not see any evidence of this assumed conspiracy against boaters that seems to be the mantra of many on public forums and social media.

AndyH

ruby
Mar-04-2021 @ 10:27 AM                           Permalink
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It is good to see a reasoned debate on these pages. Personally, I do not think the BA necessarily are anti boaters in this case but  I do think they are guilty of the new age sin of "cutandpasteitus".

So many organisations have lost the skill of writing and thinking for themselves and revert merely to cut and pasting text already available to them .

I suspect it is because speed is given far more weight in the organisations than clarity or accuracy . Personally I would like to see it right but maybe I am old fashioned .

For my evidence I draw on any communication from a government body or company customer service department where it is obvious a stock of form letters are used.

Graham

L'sBelles
Mar-04-2021 @ 11:04 AM                           Permalink
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I do not think it helps when you receive an invoice for the Broads Toll issued on the same day as this statement with a long letter of 'justification' from JP which is effectively cut and pasted from what he wrote on this forum a couple of weeks ago.
I know we all have to pay it, but given the last year we have all had to endure you would think that a little thought to the wording and timing of these things to show some compassion and support for boaters might result in some reciprocation.

Forresters
Mar-04-2021 @ 11:37 AM                           Permalink
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To add my name to the list of boaters with no axe to grind as far the BA is concerned.

I haven’t seen what DEFRA have put out but the CRT did not say from the 29th you should not leave your village, the Government don’t seem to be saying it but the BA most certainly are.

It sets up antagonism towards a person who travels 10 miles from their home to go on their boat. Totally unnecessary and wrong of them.

The village 5 a side footie team is discouraged from playing because the outside facility is 5 miles away in the next village  and they have no opponents in the same village. No this is not the intention of this mess

The pace of life down there
suits us

seventh-heaven
Mar-04-2021 @ 12:16 PM                           Permalink
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Bit of a no win situation when some want the authorities to be careful and take more time with their words whilst others are bemonaing that fact that it takes a week or more to provide clarity.

I am aware that BA did take some time to try and tailor the DEFRA info to make it more relevant - but I also agree that it is not as clear as it might be but that is at least in part because the BA felt unable to deviate too far from the DEFRA guidance for fear of being critisied!

On the CRT the following is from their COVID page - you will see that it does indeed state "stay local":

"There is no change until Step 1 part 2, potentially from 29 March, when it is anticipated that the official stay at home order will end but people will be encouraged to stay local. Limited local boat movement may be possible but you should avoid travelling if your boat is not located close to where you live, and only those living aboard are permitted to make an overnight stay."

AndyH

This message was edited by seventh-heaven on Mar-4-21 @ 12:17 PM

Paladine
Mar-04-2021 @ 12:29 PM                           Permalink
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Despite British Marine and representatives of navigation authorities meeting with Defra, those authorities have simply muddied the water, by putting their own slant on whatever it was Defra told them. Why couldn’t they all simply publish the Defra advice?

British Marine have put a .pdf on their web site, with a table showing what (in their view) will be the position at the various dates. The author of that .pdf is one Richard Beardsley, who appears to be a business boating development manager with the Canal and Rivers Trust (CaRT).

Yet the CaRT doesn’t provide that information on their web site, preferring to have their own potted version, which is:

“We believe that the Government’s roadmap applies to boating in England in the following ways – please note that this is subject to further confirmation.

There is no change until Step 1 part 2, potentially from 29 March, when it is anticipated that the official stay at home order will end but people will be encouraged to stay local. Limited local boat movement may be possible but you should avoid travelling if your boat is not located close to where you live, and only those living aboard are permitted to make an overnight stay.

In Step 2, from no earlier than 12 April, holiday lets are expected to reopen. We believe that at this point cruising can be done freely and overnight stays on boats and holiday hire boating will be allowed, as long as you are one household or support bubble. The boat movement suspension will be lifted (with boats required again to move every 14 days).

In Step 3, from no earlier than 17 May, indoor mixing on your boat will be allowed with up to six people or, if it is more people, two households.


That version ignores the noticeable change from 8 March, that from that date, outdoor recreation will be permitted (or perhaps there are no canoes, kayak or rowing boats used on their waters).

The Broads No-Authority have taken the table published by British Marine and change it to their own wording, and got it wrong again.

I hope the situation is now crystal clear to everyone.


"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


This message was edited by Paladine on Mar-4-21 @ 12:30 PM

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