Topic: Trust and Respect

Jean&Brian    -- Apr-20-2017 @ 7:09 PM
  While I am sure most if not all of us have great respect for the hard work done by the foot soldiers how given the manipulation of committees and the total disregard for a large percentage of Private owners and the NSBA are we expected to have any trust or faith in the executive.


Member Victor Meldrew Appreciation Society

Dibbler    -- Apr-20-2017 @ 10:08 PM
  Zero faith in  the BA from me, Brian  Mad


This message was edited by Dibbler on Apr-20-17 @ 11:08 PM

JP    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 4:28 PM
  Evening Brian,

I’m pleased to hear that there is an appreciation of the hard work done by our staff. But I absolutely disagree that any committees have been manipulated or private owners disregarded.

With regards


Jean&Brian    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 4:33 PM

Sorry but that is not the feedback from those that attended the tolls meeting nor is it the experience of those of us who did or tried to communicate our views including the NSBA. as they say you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all the time


Member Victor Meldrew Appreciation Society

JP    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 5:04 PM
  Dear Brian,

A recap on the Tolls …

A group of Members spent a year examining the structure of the tolls.

Representatives of the NSBA participated in a workshop in September 2015 which identified the key issues and established a degree of consensus about the direction of travel.

A further workshop for key stakeholders was held in 14 June 2016 which again included representatives of the NSBA and set out the initial views of the Tolls Working Group.

The NSBA and other external stakeholder organisations were invited to submit their comments on the draft proposals by the end of July 2016.  The responses were received from the BHBF, NSBA and Broads Angling Strategy Group (BASG) were then included in the report to both the Navigation Committee meeting in October and the Broads Authority in November.

So Members of the Navigation Committee and the Broads Authority considered very carefully the views of the NSBA who supported the changes to the hire boat toll structure but not those for private boats.

The meeting of the Navigation Committee on 27th October was the formal consultation process. If you had attended the Navigation Committee you would have seen that the proposals were discussed at considerable length and all three main recommendations were supported by the Committee.

The views of the NSBA were not disregarded but at the end of the day the members of the Navigation Committee and the Broads Authority were of the view that the proposed change to a simpler relationship between the size of craft and tolls paid was fairer.



Jean&Brian    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 5:26 PM

Although I couldn`t attend we had very good feedback from those that could and are fully aware of how the meeting was conducted and the conclusions reached, we also know the run up to those conclusions and in particular the people reaching those conclusions and those that were not allowed to question the decision, that doesn't answer why a large percentage of owners were not asked for an opinion and when expressed it was ignored along with the NSBA recommendations, given the unfair extremes of the final outcome I am sorry but there is no way you can say the decision taken was in the best interest of the majority of stakeholders.


Member Victor Meldrew Appreciation Society

Richard    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 6:37 PM
  To my mind one of the very major issues is that while everyone involved were totally up-front about their personal/special interests. They were still voting and/or making decisions that had a financial interest in their relationship with the BA.

There is a reason as to why insider trading is illegal.

Anyone having a financial interest in decisions made by the BA or Nav Com should not vote.

It's like caesar's wife.

When you guys appear to be not doing things right, and I'm not going to suggest anything corrupt, but the trust and respect from the Stakeholders will not happen when voting members can get a financial gain.

Harlequin    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 6:52 PM
  There are both winners and losers cost wise in the new system. Unfortunately for the BA the winners will sit quietly and the losers will create a fuss. No issues there as both stances are reasonable and normal.
However, for balance, there are plenty who think that the new arrangements right a previous wrong and that their tolls were previously inflated.
A difficult judgement call to make. It is impossible to please everyone. The correct process was followed so however this affected individuals we just have to accept it.
Let us not forget this was not a cash grab (other than the reasonable 3% general increase). The BA end up with pretty much the same toll revenue.

JP    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 6:58 PM
The purpose of the Navigation Committee is to represent the different interests who use the waterways. Based on the Authority’s previous survey experience asking all 10,000 toll payers whether small boats should pay less and large boats more would have predictably given a polarised set of responses which would not have helped the Authority’s members in their decision making.

The structure of the Navigation Committee is such that the different interested groups are present – both hire operators, private owners and other users of the waterways. They are given dispensation to participate in the debate on the setting of tolls. If this were not the case then almost all of the Committee would not be able to engage in the debate.

Jean&Brian    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 7:10 PM

You still havn`t answered my question, given that a consensus of opinion across the forums and user groups shows a majority lack of confidence and trust in the executive how do you propose  rectifying that.


Member Victor Meldrew Appreciation Society

Richard    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 7:12 PM
  Harlequin, I'm not suggesting in any way that this was a cash grab. The BA need the money, and probably a lot more post Brexit. I just want it to be done and seen to be done in an equitable and fair manor.

John, I totally agree with you that we need the HBO's and business owners to be part of the debate. That's not the issue.

Voting when there is a financial gain IS.

Debate and decision making two totally different things, or do you not agree?

rickh    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 7:15 PM
  Without any knowledge whatsoever I'm guessing harlequin your tolls have come down hence your remarks had they gone up as significantly as some have I doubt you would be of the same opinion .


JP    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 7:19 PM
  Dear Brian,

The most reliable poll of private boat owners is the survey by Insight Track in November 2014.

This statistically significant response showed that only 16% of private boat owners were dissatisfied with the performance of the Broads Authority.


kfurbank    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 7:22 PM

I'm not a gambling man, but I bet it you rerun that same survey it would be a significantly higher figure now!!!!

Just because The BA make a request, don't automatically assume they have the powers to make such requests!! Keeping a careful eye on an Authority which is making it's own rules.

rickh    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 7:25 PM
  Is it just me our did others see the way a certain Richardson's rep and nav committee member steered the discussions especially regarding hire boats and had the nerve to suggest that BA at toll payers expense extended the amount of electric posts to accommodate the hire fleet's .


tonybwb    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 7:57 PM
  I do not think 16 per cent of private boat owners not being satisfied with BA's performance should be a cause of satisfaction especially at a time when there were fewer or no exceptional decisions being made.

tony b

Jean&Brian    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 8:04 PM

Given that survey was only representative of a small number of toll payers, the breakdown of the various sectors of toll payer and the loaded questions I don't place any credence on the results at all.


Member Victor Meldrew Appreciation Society

Harlequin    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 10:28 PM
My opinions on the toll changes have nothing whatsoever about my personal circumstances. As yet I have neither used or tolled my boats on the broads this year. I will shortly do so and depending on which boat / boats I put on the water this will either be an increase or decrease. At best by only putting my smallest boat on the water I will gain about a fiver. So nothing in it for me personally.
What this forum often fails to grasp is that MOST people who post here have motor boats that tend to be larger so generally they have seen increases. However huge numbers of people on the Broads have small boats and have felt proportionally overcharged for years. They see the changes as a case of "about time too".
In their eyes the "equitable and fair manner" of pricing tolls that Richard mentioned has now been addressed.
Also given that larger boats by their very nature give the opportunity to spend considerable time aboard compared to small boats (some people even living aboard full time) the value of their tolls is hugely increased. Maybe the BA should base their tolls on an hourly rate to reflect that usage of infrastructure Smile .

rickh    -- Apr-26-2017 @ 11:20 PM
  Harlequin it was the way your post was worded that due my attention it seam as if it was a case of I'm all right jack that's all , naturally there are winners and losers I did both over 2 boats, yes plenty have complained over the yrs but mostly for tenders , as for usage big boats can't use the whole system smaller ones can so its swing's and roundabouts there too , as for an hourly rate that's never going to happen and besides for the amount of help I and others  give BA in reports etc then I just can't see it , I'm beginning to think that with some the fact that others have the opportunity to spend lots of time on the rivers is something they don't like because they aren't in the same position , of they were then maybe they would see there tolls as better value , I'm sure most will have a diesel bill of 1/7 of mine + parts and servicing etc all of which comes from local yards and supplier's .
I'll readily agree some take the Mick in the way they behave but I prefer my own company and keep away hence of anyone needs a part for a breakdown repair or a tool to do what ever and iv got it then its sorted simple as that , not all that live afloat are the enemy some are exactly the opposite .


Harlequin    -- Apr-27-2017 @ 12:40 AM
  I was not suggesting that liveaboards or people that daily or weekly use the broads are some kind of enemy. Rather I was stating that they get extremely good value for money tolls wise.
Living on the water obviously incurs larger other costs like diesel etc but compared to mortgages or rent and general land based expenses it is a snip.

Jean&Brian    -- Apr-27-2017 @ 7:28 AM
  This is the Insight Survey referred to by John, it should be noted this was nearly 3 yrs ago although published in 2015 it was commissioned and carried out in 2014 since when there has been significant changes.


Member Victor Meldrew Appreciation Society

This message was edited by Jean&Brian on Apr-27-17 @ 8:29 AM

Marshman    -- Apr-27-2017 @ 8:14 AM
  Whilst I don't agree with the tolls increase, JP forgot to mention that the budgeted rise in tolls revenue after the exercise, is in the region of 2/3% and whilst we shall have to await the actual outcome, clearly for every loser, someone else gains.

As someone said, these are the silent majority keeping stum!

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