Topic: Broads Swim 2019 - wrc


Richard    -- Jun-3-2019 @ 7:19 PM
  Dear All

The Broads Swim 2019 is scheduled to run along the River Waveney on Sunday 23 June 2019 from Waveney River Centre in Burgh St Peter to Beccles Quay.  The swim will take place from 9.00am to 4.00pm and will be accompanied by safety RIB’s and kayaks along the entire route.  There will be food and rest stops at North Cove, Worlingham and Aldeby Hall.

Kind Regards

Laura Milner
Administrative Officer Operations
Broads Authority
Tel: 01603 756035

Broads Authority, Yare House, 62-64 Thorpe Road. Norwich NR1 1RY
01603 610734
www.broads-authority.gov.uk



Karen&Mike    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 9:43 AM
  Dreadful idea to be promoting any sort of swimming on The Broads. I know we've had this debate before but I have to say we are noting more and more folk dunking themselves in this awful water!

Recently at St Benets ( yes, the busy river at StBenets!) a family on a day boat were merrily encouraging a young boy of maybe 7 years old to repeatedly jump in from the moorings there. In just normal swimwear, on a very windy day where we noted ourselves it was hard at times to control our small lightweight boat, and others were tramming by (in large hire boats and also a couple of big sea going privates). So even though he was wearing a life jacket he could so easily have been whipped across the river into the path of a heavy boat.

And then of course there is also the ever present danger of Weils disease, never mind just the usual "crap" ( excuse the pun) that we all know is in there!

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"


ruby    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 12:49 PM
  Sorry Karen but I can't agree. Not my cup of tea but the Broads are an enticing place for wild swimmers as they are so much cleaner and docile than other open water such as the tidal Thames.

Swimmers have just as much right as the rest of us to enjoy the water of the Broads.

I do accept there are risks and I would not welcome swimming lanes a la cycle paths or swimmers only broads for that matter.

However an occasional  organised and managed  swim is welcomed by me.





VetChugger    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 1:00 PM
  I seem to recall that a very successful event followed the somewhat jaundiced debate last time!

Trevor


Hylander    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 2:13 PM
  What about the moorings at North Cove , Worlinghan, Aldby etc.   Will they also be closed.

Women dont nag they just
point
things out...



M


Karen&Mike    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 3:15 PM
  Gosh it does seem to me that some people like to jump on me whenever I express my views, to allege that those views are suggesting the Broads are not there to be enjoyed by everyone. Please do try and read and understand that point I am making.

And just because an event was "successful" doesn't mean it's the right thing to do! Successful as in made money? Or plenty turned up? Or nobody got a nasty disease?

I do fully "get " that wild swimmers , perhaps in their wetsuits or other kit, want to emerse  themselves in the Broads rivers, and I am not saying they shouldn't, what I am saying is that on the one hand the BA have signs up telling visitors not to swim, yet on the other hand now promote an event for swimming. Holidaymakers may not be aware of any differences between the two and then some person or little child is hit by a boat , or someone picks up the very nasty Weils disease.

We've suddenly come across heads bobbing in front of us on the river and had to take evasive action. I don't think it's selfish to not want to be in the position of having hurt someone. I've also known a lovely chap who became very very ill after getting Weils after a fall into the river.

Whenever swimming in the Broads gets mentioned or "aired" on here I will continue to voice my opinion about the dangers I think it represents. And I will no doubt have to keep repeating that fact that having that opinion does not mean I somehow harbour feelings that the Broads is only there to be enjoyed by certain people. I am just trying to take my points about the dangers I feel exist and, in particular, the consequences of what I see are mixed messages from the BA.

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"


pargeandmarge    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 3:47 PM
  Marge and Parge would like to wish all YOU SWIMMERS WELL and have a great day.
It is fantastic that this year you are helping the Waveney Stardust to give those a trip and some an introduction to the Broads that may not have had a chance to do so.
Many thanks to all that are helping and swimming enjoy your day and have fun.
Kindest Regards
                Marge and Parge X


ruby    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 3:53 PM
  Sorry Karen but You start with "Dreadful idea to be promoting swimming."

That may be your opinion but it is not mine and I am just as entitled to my view as you are to yours.

I am sure we will meet one day and I am equally sure neither of us will be wild swimming on the Broads


Karen&Mike    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 5:21 PM
  Yes you are of course Ruby.

I just needed to make it clear that by not supporting the idea I was not  in some way ignoring the rights of everyone to enjoy the Broads, or worse , only wanting it to be enjoyed by certain groups of users. It would be unfair to be accused of some sort of selfish attitude  simply by expressing concerns which are certainly not without merit.

Maybe signs or BA publications which bang home the message that only organised swim events are acceptable would help address the needs of those who wish to "dunk"  and those who see the risks of casual swimming becoming the norm.  Then maybe I wouldn't feel the need to pipe up with my concerns every time swimming is mentioned? Maybe.....   Wink  

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"


Paladine    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 5:42 PM
 
A couple of years ago, the BA's advice on swimming was "Don't swim – no matter how hot it is, the water in the rivers and broads is always cold and shock from cold can kill. Also you won't be seen by boaters."

Since the advent of the Waveney swim, that has been changed to "When the weather is warm it can be very tempting to go for a swim in the Broads. This is potentially very dangerous without the benefit of support from an open water swimming organisation. The Broads Authority strongly advises against entering the water unless part of an organised event."

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


Karen&Mike    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 5:52 PM
  Well that's a step in the  right direction , though not strong enough in my view.

Thanks for the info Mr P.

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"


Forresters    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 6:26 PM
  As is often the case Paladine has beaten me to it!!

The advice on swimming is comprehensive and can be viewed here

https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/navigating-the-broads/outdoor-swimming

I understand completely why you raise the dangers of swimming Karen however I do think that it was also with an underlying message from you that the event should not happen regardless.  "Dreadful idea to be promoting any sort of swimming on The Broads. I know we've had this debate before but I have to say we are noting more and more folk dunking themselves in this awful water! "

I don't think the organised event has led to more incidents of folk swimming or jumping in.

The pace of life down there
suits us


DaveR    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 8:46 PM
  We were moored on The Yare last weekend at Hardley Cross  in the evening approx 20 swimmers came past. Seemed to be well organised and each swimmer was towing a hi Viz float. Subsequent info was that they came out of the water at Reedham Quay. They came past us on the ebb tide - dont know where they entered the water. Water Temp was 68 degrees so not too cold.


Karen&Mike    -- Jun-4-2019 @ 9:24 PM
  Look folks, I could just simply have my opinion and state it without any reasoning or background at all. And that would be tough sh1t as they say, However I'm not like that -  I will usually explain why I have a view , what's brought me to that opinion etc. We spend a lot of time on the water, we don't just visit occasionally and I'm a keen observer of actions, rules, notices etc.

I am getting a tad cheesed off with those who make assumptions about what they believe is going on in my head,  yet never seem to do that with other members !  Shall I perhaps suggest what could be motivating an inability to accept my views on face value, (regardless of whether in agreement  with them). Would they not find that offensive if I alleged underlying reasons for their actions? It's certainly quite offensive to me to be accused of a selfish attitude or hidden agenda simply  because I disagreed , and particularly so when I have added reasons to support my concerns. I could almost believe another wild suggestion put to me recently - that this is some   warped effort to derail my opinions!

Hey ho.






"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"


Paladine    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 6:46 AM
 
I will confess that I’m of the view that just because someone has a right to do something, that right should be exercised, regardless of the dangers or inconveniences involved. The Thames has been mentioned, but what about all the other available venues around the country, which have cleaner water and no boating activity. There are, literally, dozens and dozens of those.

Perhaps this event would be better held on Oulton Broad on a Thursday evening.

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


martinward    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 8:02 AM
  This event happened without incident last year and from what I can remember was very well run with all the necessary safety procedures in place.

Everyone has their own personal  opinions on this but it looks likely to be turning into an annual event so lets just accept it as that.The Broads Authority are obviously happy for it to happen for a second time and if it gives enjoyment
and this year is raising money for Waveney Stardust then good luck to all concerned.  Martin W.


Jilda    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 8:06 AM
  Just to add my 10p's worth,  I feel as long as you're aware of the dangers here and of 'what lurks beneath' then you have the freedom to choose what's right for you.

I'm with Karen though this is definitely not for me nor my family for all the reasons she has stated.

Jilda


Paladine    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 9:01 AM
 
A little more information:

The advice from the Norfolk Constabulary is ”Do not swim in the Broads, regardless of the weather.”

Broadsswimming is not a charitable organisation. None of the money they make will go to the Waveney Stardust Trust, which is a charity. Competitors are simply asked to donate a sum to the Trust, such donation being entirely optional and separate from the substantial entry fee. So Broadsswimming is asking the competitors to support Waveney Stardust, rather than dipping into their own pockets.

The Broads Authority has no power to prevent the event. Nor do they support it. They simply advise against swimming in the Broads (giving eight good reasons why it’s not a good idea), but suggest that anyone determined to do so has the support of an open water swimming organisation.

It doesn’t matter to me, one way or the other, as I won’t be anywhere near the course. As for the previous discussion being ”jaundiced”, that particular debate attracted several complimentary comments, from unlikely sources, as to how balanced and civilised it was.


"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


Steve51    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 9:10 AM
  Whatever your views on the matter, here's a link to the event website.

Steve. CM1 and NR12


Jilda    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 9:19 AM
  Thanks once again for your info here Mr Pally.

Jilda


JollyRodger    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 1:27 PM
  Just a few thoughts:

If I paddle my kayak from the WRC to Beccles then I am expected to pay a toll. Not unreasonable that swimmers pay too.

Did last years's event take place during the fishing season? This year it certainly is meaning that existing users, boaters and fishermen, will have their activities impacted on by the swimmers. Perhaps that begs the question as to who is actually being selfish, if indeed anyone is.

Got to say that I agree with Karen on this one.

Jolly Rodger


BELLA    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 2:49 PM
  Just a few thoughts:

This could have serious implications on navigation between WRC and Beccles.
JollyRoger, as you are so concerned about this swim maybe you could approach your good friend on the Navigation Committee and get it stopped.
Think of all those hungry and thirsty supporters who will be at the start.
Where will they buy food and drink from?

I am sure you will get his full support to get it stopped.


Paladine    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 3:02 PM
 
”If I paddle my kayak from the WRC to Beccles then I am expected to pay a toll. Not unreasonable that swimmers pay too.”

You’ll need to provide a better argument than that. The 1988 Broads Act, Section 13, says: ”The Authority may determine and recover tolls in respect of vessels moored, used or navigated on adjacent waters as well as in the navigation area.” I can’t find a similar provision relating to swimmers. Do you know of one?

If it’s not lawful to apply a toll to swimmers, it’s unreasonable to expect them to pay one.


"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


pargeandmarge    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 3:26 PM
  If you enter one of the great marathons or sponsored walks you could get run over by a vehicle but the competitors entrants and good causes don't think that way thank goodness.
We suppose that all those that criticise, wouldn't take part as they may need a nap after consuming all those chips upon their shoulders.
We should all live a little by letting others live.
Regards
Marge and Parge














































































Paladine    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 4:11 PM
 
If comparisons are to be made, they should be between similar events.

The London Marathon, for example, is organised by the London Marathon Trust, a charity. After costs, 100 per cent of the surplus is gifted to The London Marathon Charitable Trust.

Norfolk Broads Swimming Ltd is a private limited company, a commercial enterprise, with one director, the organiser of the Waveney swim. Any charitable donations rely on the willingness of the participants in the race to cough up.

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


This message was edited by Paladine on Jun-5-19 @ 5:11 PM


pargeandmarge    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 4:34 PM
  We made no mercenary comparison, just the thought that those who took part in any type of event like this did so because they wanted to and feel that most entered, in the true spirit of the event to enjoy themselves, push personal boundaries  and help others.
The risks for most participants are obvious or pointed out by the organisers if necessary.
Regards
Marge and Parge


Paladine    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 5:08 PM
 
My apologies, I took your reference to sponsorship and good causes to relate to the benefits to charitable causes. I was simply pointing out that the driving force behind the Waveney swim appears to be private profit for the organiser, unlike the London Marathon, the surplus of which goes to the charitable trust, while the competitors raise money for their own favourite charitable cause. I wonder if it is this difference that creates the antipathy towards the Waveney swim in some quarters.

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


ruby    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 5:47 PM
  Well said M&P. Paladine I think you are the only one to mention the profit motive of the organiser but you may have a point.
Personally i would prefer a park run type concept run by volunteers but we can't have everything.

I am not sure where you think there are any more suitable locations. I understand wild swimmers wish to go from place A to B rather than round a round a lake. They also wish to test themselves against all the natural challenges such a swim presents.
Oulton on a summer Thursday may unfortunately be an adventure  too far.


Paladine    -- Jun-5-2019 @ 10:05 PM
 
”Paladine I think you are the only one to mention the profit motive of the organiser but you may have a point.”

I only mentioned it as there seemed to be a view that the event was in aid of charity, which it isn’t. The organiser has admitted that it is a commercial enterprise.

”I am not sure where you think there are any more suitable locations.”

Take your pick http://outdoorswims.co.uk/lstevents.php (and these aren’t all the available venues)



"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


pargeandmarge    -- Jun-6-2019 @ 2:50 PM
  Thanks for the link Pally Smile  The only problem for Norfolk or Suffolk swimmers would be getting there as they are a few steps away.
Could solve the problem though as the Norfolk or Suffolk swimmers may not have enough energy left to swim when they reached the venues if they had walked.
The poor spectators and helpers from the surrounding areas of this swim will need holiday booked.

This is supposed to be a light hearted comment and no offence intended to anybody as we all look at life differently.
Kindest Regards
Marge and Parge  Smile


Forresters    -- Jun-6-2019 @ 5:53 PM
  These days I can run a bath but that's about it!

My point is that back in the early 80's I entered the Great North Run for the first time which as you know starts in Newcastle, crosses the iconic Tyne Bridge, passes Gateshead Stadium and finishes in my beloved home town of South Shields.

As a boy I ran for South Shields Harriers, competed in club races at Gateshead Stadium and was once only 10 yards behind Steve Cram when he finished a mile race (albeit it one lap down!!!!).

The route I had travelled along many times by car and bus.  Part of the excitement was being able to run along the same roads without traffic.  For anyone familiar with the Broads I can understand the same charm value to be able to swim in familiar waters.  For anyone not familiar then the opportunity is there to become captivated and return as a visitor.

I am not denigrating the risks but as an organised event participants are well informed.  Just adding a different perspective


The pace of life down there
suits us


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