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Posted By Discussion Topic: Boat rescue - Update to story

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Karen&Mike
Jun-23-2021 @ 3:13 PM                           Permalink
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Karen&Mike
          

As I don't want to clog up Steve's coastguard thread , I've started a new thread here , to provide an update on the incident the other day re a boat stuck under Haven Bridge.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/rnli-called-to-haven-bridge-in-great-yarmouth-8080114

The report includes quotes from the rescue services.  A little more to this than was thought ...

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

steve
Jun-23-2021 @ 3:34 PM                           Permalink
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Even spoke about today on BBC Radio Norfolk
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09m9dh4?at_custom2=facebook_page&at_custom4=ED803A98-D41B-11EB-A28D-F2520EDC252D&at_medium=custom7&at_custom3=LR%20BBC%20Radio%20Norfolk&at_custom1=link&at_campaign=64
Thank you Karen for starting a different thread to keep coastguard thread on topic
steve and vicky
( apparently a moaner)


This message was edited by steve on Jun-23-21 @ 3:36 PM

Karen&Mike
Jul-04-2021 @ 2:15 PM                           Permalink
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So, whilst being aware that, especially these days, it's very easy to offend or upset people by making any sort of comment that could be deemed unkind, unfair, negative, etc, I've decided to pose my few thoughts here.

We are after all a forum for debate and discussion about all things Broads related. Safety is a particularly hot topic at any time of course, but more so with the tragic events on the waters of the Broads last year.

A spokesperson for the lifeboat/coastguard is quoted as saying :

" At the time when we arrived all of the crew members were on board. They were quite shaken by the incident. The tide and the conditions certainly were strong at the time.They had come out from the Yarmouth yacht station and then tried to make the turn right onto Breydon Water and the wind and tide simply got hold of them and took them further down the river.”

So I'd assume this was not an engine failure, as in failed completely, but more of a case that the engine was not capable of dealing with the tide and weather conditions.

This is what has got me thinking. I've not heard of this, well certainly not a regular occurrence  That's not to say it hasn't happened but I don't recall even a handful of situations where a boat was on its way to being washed out to sea because it couldn't turn at the end of The Bure simply due to tide and some wind.

So, if it is that easy, as it were, to lose control on a windy ( not exceptionally wild ) day, and face a fast and dangerous tide, which is pretty strong any time at that point, why are hire boats ever allowed to undertake the crossing?

We were at the Maritime festival in Yarmouth about 5 or 6 years ago when a river boat somehow did take a wrong turn, came through Haven bridge and was simply  belting down river out of control , past the festival quayside. To say it was alarming is an understatement and lord knows how those on board felt! The emergency services were right on hand of course and were able to get the situation under control but the brutality of those waters was clear for all watching to see.

So I hope you can see my point - if it is that easy to get washed down - as opposed to making a mistake and turning the wrong way - but simply get taken by the tide, surely there is a duty on someone, some organisation, to stop this risk from being taken?

Or was this a rare and unusual situation never likely to be repeated? And does that mean that on balance it's ok to let folk with little or no experience , or simply on boats that haven't  the power, to pass through whilst keeping official fingers crossed? After all, experience or not, if it's that's easy , it could happen to anyone.

I have no plans for us to ever undertake this crossing again, currently!

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

ruby
Jul-04-2021 @ 3:28 PM                           Permalink
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You make some good points Karen although in the same report the lifeboat report does refer to a loss in power .

That aside I believe many older hire boats are underpowered when it comes to the tides around Yarmouth but I question why someone wouldnt  wait for slack or nearly slack water when it shouldn't be a problem

My old 38 foot boat had a BMC 1.5 Engine which was brilliant in quieter rivers but would really struggle against a 5 knot tide /wind combination. Also compare that to  the monster engine the BA insisted in putting in their Breydon patrol boat as they considered it essential .

Not sure there is a solution beyond education unless the hire yards insurance companies decide the risk is so great the increased premiums  forces the hire yards to ban their boats from that bit of the network

Graham

annville
Jul-04-2021 @ 4:56 PM                           Permalink
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Hi Karen All hire boats have enough power to over come the tidal flow on the broads But! they could well have weeds or rubbish around there prop thus giving reduced trust, being hirers they wouldn't be aware of this as going down the bure with the tide it would appear ok until they needed the extra thrust when turning into the tide to cross Brayden, they were pointing in the right direction so they turned correctly but not enough thrust. John



This message was edited by annville on Jul-4-21 @ 5:00 PM

ruby
Jul-04-2021 @ 5:09 PM                           Permalink
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Hi  John

I am sure that when built they were designed for the conditions, I think I was more thinking as some were over 40 years old that the engines (such as my BMC ) were no longer able to produce the required power. A bit like a classic car no longer being able to reach the performance of when new.

Graham

Dzign
Jul-04-2021 @ 5:09 PM                           Permalink
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In general hire boats have been making this passage for as long as I can remember and I can't recall a similar event happening, that's not to say it hasn't just that I'm not aware of it having happened.
Is it possible that there was a brief lack of concentration and the eye was taken of the ball.

L

Luise
Jul-04-2021 @ 5:19 PM                           Permalink
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“Or was this a rare and unusual situation never likely to be repeated? And does that mean that on balance it's ok to let folk with little or no experience , or simply on boats that haven't  the power, to pass through whilst keeping official fingers crossed? After all, experience or not, if it's that's easy , it could happen to anyone”

I brought my boat from the importer in Shepperton up around the coast to come in at GY. New boat, incoming tide, not 100% sure of its air-draught, I thought it prudent to turn round before Haven Bridge and tie up to South Quay and wait for the water to drop or the bridge to raise. I was told over the radio that the bridge was lifting an hour or so later at 10:00 and I could slip through then. At 09:55 I was told to get ready and punctually at 10:00 the bridge raised.

No problem, go sea-wards a bit and turn around. BUT - ever conscious that “my” bridge lift is bringing the whole of GY’s traffic to a stand-still - I simply didn’t go far enough before attempting to turn. Once the boat was sideways on to the current it wouldn’t turn any further! Full power, using bow thruster to try to help push it round, I’m being swept sideways closer and closer to the bridge. The boat eventually turned just enough to be pushed through at an angle, but I could oh so easily have been stuck across the bridge and on a YouTube video being laughed at.

Yes, an error you’d expect of a beginner and I should have known better than to feel pressured into manoeuvring too soon, but, until experienced, the force of GY’s currents at full flow and ebb are hard to believe. Last year I crossed North to South at the “wrong” time, and even with the minimum revs to maintain way and steerage I literally shot through the Yacht Station (sorry Rangers, but you were quite busy enough with the boats that were trying to moor, and I was more than ready to take appropriate evasive action). As soon as I turned past the “Yellow Marker” and towards Breydon itself the boat went slower and slower and as an experiment I didn’t increase revs until, as I suspected, the boat stopped and was then pushed backwards. To actually make any progress I had to increase the revs to 2,500. In such conditions, a newbie in a possibly under-powered hire craft could easily find him/herself in difficulty…

Peter

REDKEN
Jul-04-2021 @ 5:39 PM                           Permalink
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I still do not understand how that boat got under the two bridges at the bottom of the Bure, but then could not go straight under the Haven bridge.
If the tide was too high for the hire boat to go under Haven, it must have been too high to go under the two bridges after the yacht station on the Bure.



This message was edited by REDKEN on Jul-4-21 @ 5:40 PM

annville
Jul-04-2021 @ 5:57 PM                           Permalink
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Hi Peter The trick is to turn using your ropes along there it can get rather fast with incoming tide, i prefer to go against the tide when passing the yacht station, you only want a boat to pull out and try to turn to have a bad day , i have not heard of hire boats not having enough power to cross Breyden they certainly turn it into a race track, it certainly can knock your speed back making the Berney arms something to savoir when you get there, Vaughan would be a good place to get a definitive answer on how much power you need to cross Breyden. John

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