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The Norfolk Broads Forum / Broads Authority Issues / Toll charges are reasonable
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Posted By Discussion Topic: Toll charges are reasonable

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steve
Sep-30-2017 @ 8:47 AM                           Permalink
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Toll charges are reasonable?

steve and vicky
( apparently a moaner)


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steve
Sep-30-2017 @ 8:50 AM                           Permalink
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The letter from 26th as mentioned

steve and vicky
( apparently a moaner)


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Marshman
Sep-30-2017 @ 7:58 PM                           Permalink
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They are if you compare them with other inland waterways - but few of you believe it!!!

Steve51
Sep-30-2017 @ 8:30 PM                           Permalink
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Presumably the letter was written by forum member MarWak who was trying to garner support for his argument here.

Steve. CM1 and NR12

MarWak
Sep-30-2017 @ 11:23 PM                           Permalink
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This letter, and the one I wrote to which it is referring are concerned only with the Adjacent Waters Toll. I have never questioned BA's legal right to charge a toll in adjacent waters, merely that the policy of charging full rate is arbitrary and unfair- that is 'unreasonable' in the legal sense. All Broads tolls, like harbour charges in all UK harbours, are required by law to be 'reasonable', the difference is that you have no right to appeal against the Adjacent Waters toll because it was made under BA's own Act, rather than Harbours Act (as BA would have you believe it). I believe the Adjacent Waters toll is arbitrary and unfair, and is not 'reasonable' in the legal sense and I am ready and willing to argue that in court. I think it is truly shocking that BA firstly try to keep the right of appeal secret and secondly have contrived to deprive boat owners of their legal right to appeal the adjacent waters toll to DtP Ports Division.
I have today written to EDP asking BA why they will not allow the adjacent waters toll to be subject to the same scrutiny as all other UK harbour charges? I have undertaken to abide by DtP's decision, and challenged them to do the same. Let's see how confident they really are!
This is a matter where I really should have support of NSBA......

Paladine
Oct-01-2017 @ 7:40 AM                           Permalink
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"This is a matter where I really should have support of NSBA......"

Why? NSBA = Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association. It represent members who go boating, i.e. use the navigation and pay the harbour dues (tolls).

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)

Jean&Brian
Oct-01-2017 @ 9:01 AM                           Permalink
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I don't see the reasoning behind this argument, if you have a boat you pay the relevant toll if its a houseboat likewise, as Paladine says the NSBA represents boaters, livaboards have their own organization, apart from one individual who the BA prosecuted I havnt heard of any other affected owners making a complaint.

         Brian



This message was edited by Jean&Brian on Oct-1-17 @ 10:01 AM

MarWak
Oct-01-2017 @ 10:10 AM                           Permalink
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Firstly: Of course it is a matter for NSBA: there is an established legal process to protect the interests of boat owners from unfair charging by harbour authorities all over the country, which applies to BA's tolls. BA keep it a secret. It used to be standard practice to advise anyone unhappy at their toll to follow the S.31 procedure - now there is never any reference to it anywhere by BA.
Worse, in respect of Adjacent waters tolls BA say the S.31 procedure does not apply because this toll is made under their own Act. They are certainly wrong on this. The effect is to prevent any legal scrutiny of the adjacent waters toll, allowing them to get away with a toll which is in my reasoned view arbitrary and grossly unfair. There could be no clearer case for NSBA becoming involved to protect the proper legal interests of boat owners!
And the reference to houseboats etc misses the point entirely. I've never owned a houseboat in my life; I got caught for two years adjacent waters toll, about £600 for a 30' workboat moored permanently in Goodchilds' basin for nine months over two tolls years being prepared to go to Essex as tender to a sailing barge. I tried to appeal this charge to DtP under S.31 as should be my right, only to be told the procedure does not apply. As I have said (till I'm blue in the face), this makes the adjacent waters toll a charge punishable as a criminal offence for non-payment, where there is no lawful process for challenge or appeal - that is something which should not exist in a democracy. Yes - It is essential NSBA gets off its backside and supports me in this!
This goes to the very heart of the matter -tyrants and despots get away with it because ordinary folk turn a blind eye as long as the abuses don't directly affect them "Evil prospers when good men lie abed!" (or words vaguely to that effect). As civil rights abuses go, the Adjacent Waters toll is hardly up with Islamic State' but it is an abuse just the same!

Marshman
Oct-01-2017 @ 10:21 AM                           Permalink
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But Marwak, its all a matter of opinion!

As you can see, you are almost alone in your take on the situation and I cannot see a lot of support for your isolationist view!! Perhaps there is a message in that for you....!!!

daz3210
Oct-01-2017 @ 11:16 AM                           Permalink
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Firstly, who told you Marwak that a S31 appeal could not be made? Was it the BA, DTP or a tribunal hearing?

In the UK courts all the time decide whether they have jurisdiction to hear a case, so why not mount your S31 appeal regardless of what BA say, and let the hearing decide whether they can rule? If they decide they can, BA cannot then deny that S31 applies as you seem to argue.

Secondly, not paying the toll may well be a criminal offence, but contrary to what you suggest there is also a means to oppose that too. If you do not feel the tolls apply, then simply do not pay, and when it comes to your trial mount a defence and see if you win.

But then in all this I forgot that you did mention you do not have a boat on the Broads, so therefore probably cannot do either of the above suggestions.

Which makes me wonder why you bother bleating on.......

Wocka Wocka Wocka

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