The Norfolk BroadsThe Norfolk Broads
Username Password
Norfolk Broads Weather

Mon, 11 Apr 2016 7:20 am BST- Light Rain
5 Day Forecast

Wind 2.0 mph @ 40°
48.0°F/8.89°C Humidity 93% Pressure 29.65 (S)

Welcome to The Norfolk Broads Forum
This is THE Worlds Largest Forum devoted to the Norfolk Broads, here you can discuss issues about the Norfolk Broads. Or just somewhere to chat with others interested in the Norfolk Broads area. In 2015 forum members spent 2,048 days afloat on the Broads

Please Help Support The Norfolk Broads Forum
OR

The Norfolk Broads Forum / Broads Authority Issues / Adjacent Waters Tolls
login
join
Graphics Off
Search
Forum Members - Book your Hoseasons holiday today, Just call 0345 498 6296

This is a moderated forum Reply to this DiscussionReply to Discussion | Start new discussionNew Discussion << previous || next >> 
Posted By Discussion Topic: Adjacent Waters Tolls

Similar Threads That Might Help :
Private adjacent waters| Adjacent waters?| Tolls - Tolls and more tolls| Two Adjacent Mooring Freeholds For Sale| protection against water(salt water)| Breydon Water Wake Board and Water Ski Trials|

-- Page: 1 2 3 4 5

book mark this topic Printer-friendly Version  send this discussion to a friend  new posts last

MarWak
Sep-26-2017 @ 1:05 PM                           Permalink
reply
edit
profile
send p.m.
River Rat
Posts: 29
Joined: Sep 2017
          

Add To Ignore List
Daz - Harbour Authority duties are the practical things like dredging, buoyage and signage and safety duties, including navigational patrols, all of which are costly to provide. I think they would include steps taken to ensure payment of legitimate charges. I believe it is not lawful to charge adjacent waters boats for these services. However BA are legally entitled to introduce and charge for a registration system (provided this does not generate profit) and it would be perfectly OK for BA to go onto private water to enforce this, I believe. In any event BA maintains a much more intensive river 'policing' effort than any comparable waters which has always been adequate to the task of enforcing tolls payment because, historically tolls were fair and reasonable and well supported, and backed up by prosecution under byelaws which, again, is very unusual and does not apply in most harbours. It is only because people have lost faith in the fairness of the Authority that this may have become an issue.

MarWak
Sep-26-2017 @ 1:20 PM                           Permalink
reply
edit
profile
send p.m.
River Rat
Posts: 29
Joined: Sep 2017
          

Add To Ignore List
Terry - The SORN system is a good analogy for the Broads situation, but I am not suggesting that the ANPR system and all the other paraphernalia of road tax/insurance enforcement is necessary. Very much the opposite. Given that BA has power to charge tolls in adjacent waters (whether we like it or not) all they have to do is agree that they will not collect that toll provided each boat has either paid the current year's toll or has obtained a SORN certificate, which will be issued only on payment of a modest/reasonable registration fee (which they are entitled to charge). This involves absolutely no supervision or management beyond the current effort to police tolls payment. No need for costly cameras or additional patrols etc. I can't understand why, if BA's power to charge in adjacent waters is accepted (however reluctantly) people seem so bothered about the SORN suggestion.

TerryTibbs
Sep-26-2017 @ 4:03 PM                           Permalink
reply
edit
profile
send p.m.
Harnser Trainer
Posts: 6748
Joined: Jul 2007
TerryTibbs
          

Add To Ignore List
What about the people who abuse the system and pay a modest fee for a SORN certificate and then sail around the system? How are you intending the B.A. To police that?

Dave

Je suis Charlie

This message was edited by TerryTibbs on Sep-26-17 @ 7:18 PM

Marshman
Sep-26-2017 @ 5:25 PM                           Permalink
reply
edit
profile
send p.m.
Mardles sometimes
Posts: 3563
Joined: Oct 2006
Marshman
          

Add To Ignore List
What I am puzzled to understand is why Marwak is so concerned about it - he admits that does not live here and does not have a boat here either.

It seems others here accept it - thats how it's been and thats how it is and if you would wish to have a boat here, you either accept it or stay away. Occasionally I do accept that you get individuals who have their own spin on what they think the position should be, or their own interpretation of the situation , but as he has seen the vast majority accept it and just move on, either because they don't agree with his view or by and large it does not affect them!

And thats about it!!

MarWak
Sep-26-2017 @ 5:40 PM                           Permalink
reply
edit
profile
send p.m.
River Rat
Posts: 29
Joined: Sep 2017
          

Add To Ignore List
Terry
Those people who 'pay a modest fee for a SORN certificate and then abuse the system and sail round the Broads' are precisely like the people who try to evade tolls and registration now, and always have done: they get caught by the patrol launches and prosecuted- just like always. The difference is that they would have an incentive to register their boat (to avoid paying the full toll rate) and so it would if anything be easier on the whole to identify them and prosecute them. And I say again: we in the Broads support a much bigger and more intensive river patrolling regime than any other inland or coastal waters ( due to the historic prevalence of self-dribe hire craft), and we also have the threat of prosecution for non-payment which applies in very few harbours. It is crazy, in those circumstances to endure a grossly unfair, and I say unlawful, adjacent waters toll regime just because you (mistakenly) think it makes it easier for the very body that is taking you for a ride and denying you your proper rights!

MarWak
Sep-26-2017 @ 5:42 PM                           Permalink
reply
edit
profile
send p.m.
River Rat
Posts: 29
Joined: Sep 2017
          

Add To Ignore List
Well Marshman - next time I see you being mugged in the street I'll try and remember to walk on by!

MarWak
Sep-26-2017 @ 5:45 PM                           Permalink
reply
edit
profile
send p.m.
River Rat
Posts: 29
Joined: Sep 2017
          

Add To Ignore List
Marshman By the way I do live here and have done many years - and that has precisely nothing to do with it!

TerryTibbs
Sep-26-2017 @ 6:14 PM                           Permalink
reply
edit
profile
send p.m.
Harnser Trainer
Posts: 6748
Joined: Jul 2007
TerryTibbs
          

Add To Ignore List
Why is the system unfair MarWak? Could not the same arguments you make also be made by people like me who's vessel only uses the Broads 6-7 months a year and spends the rest of the time on the hard or in a boat shed in a private marina. Maybe we could ask for a further reduction because we can't access the Broads above Potter Heigham or Wroxham or Beccles so I have a limited cruising range, or should I have another reduction because I only use the boat at weekends?
If we are going to have a pay per use system then maybe charging cameras could be set up with ATPR detection to log our use and also to catch people who's boats are sorned.
You say we have a bigger and more intensive river patrolling system, this season but that is not saying much, I have not seen one patrol boat while I have been out sailing and that has been on at least 35 days, the Authority only has eight patrol launches with 10 rangers to man them, they operate restricted hours and have many other duties to perform other than checking Tolls.
As Marshy has said, the current system may have anomalies/it is flawed but it is simple to administer and simple to police and works, if people don't agree with the system then they should leave, it's a simple as that.

Dave

Dave

Je suis Charlie

avg45
Sep-26-2017 @ 6:46 PM                           Permalink
reply
edit
profile
send p.m.
Forum Regular
Posts: 501
Joined: Mar 2008
avg45
          

Add To Ignore List
Please explain what adjacent waters means!!!


I read somewhere that
drinking was
bad for you, so I have
given up Reading.
Alan

TerryTibbs
Sep-26-2017 @ 7:18 PM                           Permalink
reply
edit
profile
send p.m.
Harnser Trainer
Posts: 6748
Joined: Jul 2007
TerryTibbs
          

Add To Ignore List
Waters that are not part of the main navigation such as Marinas Private Dykes

Dave

Je suis Charlie

PAGE: 1 2 3 4 5

Home Photo Gallery Days Afloat Contact Us
Chat Room Downloads Norfolk Broads @ Amazon Make My Logo
Shops & Businesses Members Gear Norfolk Broads @ EBay Holiday Calendar
Pub Guide Tide Tables SOS List Popular Threads
2017 Calendar Contest Make A Donation Links Hireboat Info
Norfolk Broads @ CafePress FAQ Broads Quiz Forum Events
Advertise With Us Forum Shop Boating Bits Stickys and FAQs Boating Bits Hirecraft List

 

 

 



Copyright © 2005 Y2KInternet, All Rights Reserved.