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The Norfolk Broads Forum / Broads Authority Issues / Not right
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Posted By Discussion Topic: Not right

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Forresters
May-30-2017 @ 11:00 AM                           Permalink
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I know as I post this it will be a contentious issue but I feel something needs to be done about the growing number of liveaboards who are setting up "camp" around the Broads.

We were out and about for 10 days in the North & South Broads recently and saw what seemed to be a number of boats who were occupying certain areas.  Some evidence of this in Loddon in the boatyard next to the Staithe.  A chap on a wild mooring along the Bure on the way to Horning who had set up camp including a washing line and remained there each time we passed.  An encampment of boats up the Ant I think it was at one of the forks to Sutton.

I've no idea whether they are legally tolled etc and presume the BA will have checked this out and taking appropriate action if not.  My point is this is a tourist area.  I would not dream of rocking up in Dartmoor or the Lakes with a tent etc and setting up camp to live.  Lovely places like the Broads but I'd fully expect to be moved on in short time.

The land under occupation is under somebody's ownership and therefore surely being trespassed?  The land and moorings at the Boatyard in Loddon can't have planning for permanent (semi or otherwise) living?

I've placed this under the BA issues because I assume they have to take a lead in preserving the navigation for the benefit of all.  Even if they have paid their tolls, legal remedies as we know are not cheap so if they conduct themselves in such a way that the BA have to take action they are more than negating any toll paid.

The other thorny issue is that the camps are an absolute eyesore.  If I'd paid £2,000 for a week on a Ricko's vessel I really would not be impressed with the sight of the camp 10 minutes after starting my holiday.

Clearly the boats have to transport all possessions and with little room on board so they end up stored outside the boat and on shore.  To me there is no excuse for this, every owner should restrict their possessions to the inside of the boat as the rest of us do.

I'm afraid it is this scenario that gets the continuous cruisers a bad name.  If the answer is to stop CC's or living aboard on the Broads altogether to prevent these eyesores then so be it

Alan

The pace of life down there
suits us

kfurbank
May-30-2017 @ 11:36 AM                           Permalink
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Think you might need one of these  Tinhat or one of these  Exterminate  Smile

Just because The BA make a request, don't automatically assume they have the powers to make such requests!! Keeping a careful eye on an Authority which is making it's own rules.

Karen&Mike
May-30-2017 @ 1:57 PM                           Permalink
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All very valid points Alan. The reality of what is happening is disturbing, but unfortunately that gets overlooked (or overshadowed!) because of the outcry that occurs when any of us dare say anything."Outrage"  is now a popular reaction or word used by many people when they think their rights overide everyone elses and it can often detract from the real issues.

I have voiced my opinions on this before and been the subject of some hassle as a result, but stick by them.  Perhaps one solution would be for the requirement that any boat tolled for a year (as opposed to a visitors toll) must have a home mooring.  The number of liveaboards would then be restricted to the number of properly decreed residential moorings and the BA would control any additonal consents for this.  The liveaboards who want to cruise at any time (as opposed to constantly cruise ) and use the 24-hour Moorings would be able to do so of course, just like the rest of us, but would not have to take their entire belongings with them.  Over staying at Moorings and a policy of no return within a certain timeframe would need to be enforced.  In fact as I think about this now would an increased toll for liveaboards be justified to cover the extra cost of policing, administration etc?  

Tin hat firmly on, but realities need open discussion, without emotional encumberment!

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

DorsetHelmsman
May-30-2017 @ 2:05 PM                           Permalink
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Alan
You may have noticed that from a number of posts on here a location or two have "lost" their residential craft of late and they have gone "somewhere" also BA have been discussing the issue which you will find on their website (or be it somewhat hidden)
Lets just hope this gets sorted sooner rather than later before the hire industry is totally lost for ever.
After some prodding from various quarters the waste disposal problem of the past season or two seems to be getting sorted.  



This message was edited by DorsetHelmsman on May-30-17 @ 3:10 PM

Paladine
May-30-2017 @ 2:08 PM                           Permalink
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Forresters, you can check if a boat is tolled or not by using the BA's toll checker.

You can report any untolled boat you see  here, or by phone to the Tolls Office.

The BA is well aware of the situation, but just what they are doing about it I don’t know. Perhaps you would like to copy and paste your post into an email to John.Packman@broads-authority.gov.uk and ask HIM what they are doing about it.



"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)

Karen&Mike
May-30-2017 @ 2:20 PM                           Permalink
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Perhaps all of us with concerns should do the same. Thanks Mr P.

Hopefull that does not preclude us from having a discussion about it here too...?


Karen  

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

Dreamer
May-30-2017 @ 2:25 PM                           Permalink
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I agree with much of what Karen has said. It is time the BA started to clamp down on some of these eyesores. There is a 'camp' just as you reach Norwich and the boats there are looking more and more dilapidated every time I visit the City. Arriving in Norwich should be a pleasant experience but eyesores detract.
It is certainly a minefield and I have no doubt that we will shortly be accused of tarring everyone with the same brush. That, however, is not the case. We are only talking about some elements of the liveaboard community, those that seem to care little for their own environment and the way in which they live. I agree with the idea of all vessels requiring a home mooring although that may be almost impossible to enforce, after all travellers are not required to have a home address as far as I know. Liveaboards are travellers on water, admittedly some don't travel very far!
This is a subject that has been discussed many, many times and it may be that the moderators (obviously excluding your goodself Karen) may not want to 'go there again' so to speak. However, IMO, it does enable members to reinforce their views and for new members who are only just learning about these things to put theirs forward.


Paladine
May-30-2017 @ 2:28 PM                           Permalink
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K&M, I see no reason why this cannot be discussed, but, as Forresters has already got the makings of an email enquiry, it seems a pity to waste it.

I have already spoken to the BA (but at a lower level than JP  tounge-in-cheek ), which is how I know they are aware of the situation, but the policy action must come from above, and I haven't seen any signs of cohesive action yet.

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)

Karen&Mike
May-30-2017 @ 2:32 PM                           Permalink
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Thumbs up Mr P

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

Edited because my thumbs up  became question marks! I forgot that my ipad symbols don't work on here. Sorry Mr P

This message was edited by Karen&Mike on May-30-17 @ 3:39 PM

Forresters
May-30-2017 @ 2:49 PM                           Permalink
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Thank you for the responses so far

I know this is an emotive issue and hope the debate can flow......

In response to the various points made.  I have emailed John Packman and will provide a response as and when.

Yes know about the Toll Checker and procedure there.  I also know from personal experience the BA are vigilant having been given a ticket on 5th April for non-registration and non payment of toll.  Own fault entirely having picked up the boat after repair on the 4th.  Registration etc attended to later that same week.

There will be ways to eradicate continuous cruising if that becomes necessary - over-staying has been mentioned before and is a separate issue IMHO.

I am just appalled that folk think it is acceptable to bind all your worldly goods on a boat and cruise around.  Also more importantly to set up camp on somebody else's land.  As I said you wouldn't get away with it in beauty spots elsewhere.

Happy to endorse the view that the bins have been improved - well done to those concerned.  Also being the owner of a chemical loo we purchased the Green Book and found a number of places for disposal.  No excuse for disposal by other means!!!

All for now

The pace of life down there
suits us

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