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The Norfolk Broads Forum / Broads Boat Owners Q & A / E10 Petrol
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Posted By Discussion Topic: E10 Petrol

Similar Threads That Might Help :
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Loughrigg
Aug-03-2021 @ 5:25 PM                           Permalink
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Hi John,

NiFe batteries?  - running what?

Mike

'Who says you can't get 43 boats on Ranworth Island'
'Ubique Loquimur' - We Speak Everywhere!

Karen&Mike
Aug-03-2021 @ 5:27 PM                           Permalink
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Do you build your own boats John ? Or have them commissioned ?

Another point not considered here is that of the waste and disposal of petrol, and diesel boats/engines. Cars do not last as long as boats so it really does seem such a waste to me that sweeping changes such as the E10 thing, and enforced withdrawal of alternatives , renders useful items as useless  Frown  We are a wasteful society  as it is! Sadly many of the so trumpeted greener options have just as much (sometimes worse) impact in their production or wider impacts. It's all a lot of lip service and game playing. And don't get me onto electric cars and how that's being implemented. We are simply destroying our world in different ways. It's lifestyles that need to change. Consumer demands need to change, especially re food and all the items we get that have travelled half the world over first !

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

annville
Aug-03-2021 @ 6:34 PM                           Permalink
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Hi Karen I have the hull and woodwork built to my design windows from Sea Glaze i then do the rest apart from the RCD cert (too complected) John

annville
Aug-03-2021 @ 6:39 PM                           Permalink
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Hi Mike not sure what you meen ? (propulsion motor)John

Loughrigg
Aug-03-2021 @ 10:54 PM                           Permalink
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Hi John,

I hope you'll forgive me for saying but NiFe batteries for electric propulsion is not a good idea in my honest opinion. This chemistry is very very outdated. First commercialised in 1901 just 20 years or so after the lead acid battery was introduced.

They are very limited in their performance in comparison to newer chemistries.

Low specific energy of about 20Wh/kg which is very low compared to other lithium options which can exceed 150 Wh/kg. THe upshot being that you'll need a heck of a lot more space and weight capacity. Approximately 7 times the space and weight required by other chemistries.

Low cycle efficiency - NiFe boasts a discharge rate of about 65% meaning you have to put alot more energy in (about 1.5 times) to fill them up against what you can expect back.

High self discharge rates - so these batteries lose approximately 1% per day of stored charge. That's 30% per month. Not a problem if you're utilising them all the time but not great if you leave them for a while. Other lithium options have rates that vary between 2 & 5% and even this can be mitigated with a good BMS or balancing system in line with a tiny trickle charge.

Maintenance - just like flooded lead acid batteries NiFe will require electrolyte checks. The life of these batteries is supposedly huge - 50 years plus - but that assumes diligent maintenance.

Lastly - cost - the current UK retail rate for these batteries is around £440/kWH which is comparable to LiFePO4 for example. But whilst the cost is comparable the efficiency and other points above really knock that cost up massively.

I would go with Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4).

LiFePO4 batteries have overwhelming advantages;
Much lighter and easier to handle.
Much more efficient - charge/discharge efficiency is over 90%.
The have low self discharge.
They are low maintenance - no electrolytes to check.
They have simpler charge requirements - ie - you don't have to have get into equalisation charging although you will need a BMS (battery management system) to ensure overcharging and cutoff are managed so as to not cause damage.
There is almost no Peukert effect. That is to say you can discharge them at very high rates without loss of capacity.

While NiFe do have some good points - they are used extensively in large scale solar projects due to the huge charge rate they can accept - there are much better options for smaller installations.

If asked I wouldn't recommend them for a boat installation.

Cheers





Mike

'Who says you can't get 43 boats on Ranworth Island'
'Ubique Loquimur' - We Speak Everywhere!


This message was edited by Loughrigg on Aug-3-21 @ 11:26 PM

annville
Aug-04-2021 @ 10:39 AM                           Permalink
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Thanks for that, Mike size and weight are not a issue along with a auto top up kite, cost per cycle is the big advantage along with longevity, BUT things do change quite rapidly so not craved in stone, have to sell this one first. John

Marshman
Aug-05-2021 @ 10:02 AM                           Permalink
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Aspen petrol is not specially easy to find but Stihl do exactly the same stuff, and often cheaper.

The 2 stroke is premixed and burns much cleaner - you are not followed around by a blue haze and and you get much easier starting and you get the benefit of longer storage. It is virtually benzene free and does not give off anything like the pollutants that ordinary petrol give. All in all  a better alternative - but more expensive naturally!!!

Paladine
Aug-05-2021 @ 1:04 PM                           Permalink
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Both the Aspen and Stihl websites have a 'dealer finder' facility, so neither product is difficult to find. The price difference is a couple of quid per 5 litres, so it really boils down to which dealer is the nearest. Any saving one over the other can easily be lost by having to travel further to get it  Confused

Been hit by another boat? Report the incident to the Marine Accident Investigation Branch’s dedicated accident reporting line on 023 8023 2527 which is monitored 24 hours a day.  Help to make the Broads safer.

Chicol
Aug-22-2021 @ 11:06 AM                           Permalink
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I found this threat very interesting, and for the last couple of weeks I've been looking at garage offerings, so thought I'd drop some thoughts, as some of the very good and techical response are long to read, and I think I missed some points.

I thought e10 was only now in standard 95 octane and e5 in higher octane 97 or 99 octane, as it is at Tesco, so I put 97 into my mower, and it misfired. I have now discovered that some garages sell e5 at 95 octane, seen that at a Jet and Merco garage in Essex. So that's what I'll use for the boat as my engine is 20 years old and higher octane is not recommended. , getting info from their web sites is not easy, so I'll produce a table soon of which garages still sell e5 at 95 octane.

Chicol

L'sBelles
Aug-22-2021 @ 1:28 PM                           Permalink
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Interesting observation, Marshman.
Back in the days when I had hair, many moons ago now,I used to race 1/5th scale radio controlled cars at international level which were powered by highly modified 22.5cc 2 stroke ex-chainsaw engines. The fastest cars were always using Stihl products and had no discernable smoke from their exhausts so not only were they burning cleaner but appeared to be providing more power too.
Obviously, Stihl would never divulge what oils etc. they were supplying under their label but the top drivers would seek it out in preference to the normal fuel station supplied petrol and 2 stroke oil.



This message was edited by L'sBelles on Aug-22-21 @ 1:29 PM

Paladine
Aug-22-2021 @ 1:38 PM                           Permalink
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Chicol, my understanding is that E10 petrol isn't being introduced until next month, so E5 regular grade petrol will still be available everywhere at the moment.

Been hit by another boat? Report the incident to the Marine Accident Investigation Branch’s dedicated accident reporting line on 023 8023 2527 which is monitored 24 hours a day.  Help to make the Broads safer.

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