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Posted By Discussion Topic: Fishing / tier 5

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Karen&Mike
Jan-08-2021 @ 12:44 AM                           Permalink
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Well, all I can say is it seems Derbyshire police are perhaps out of the same moulld as the BNA when it comes to interpreting guidelines. You will note details in the first news report of the heavy handedness of their actions in this instance, as well as the barrister who clearly states why they've got this wrong in terms of issuing fines. In addition, the efforts by the BBC to ascertain a definition for "local" from various bodies returned a zero response.

When the police ignore the folk who turn up at raves or parties  (large and small) and only fine the 2 or 3 organisers, then I have to say I find the way these 2 walkers were dealt with was overzealous. Indeed it smacks of the easy target strategy to me. I am sad to say that these days I find our police forces woefully inadequate, with skewed priorities and poorly trained officers. We have had officers in our family so this is a hard thing to say but I really have lost faith. I can't be the only one. Worse still, bad press and poor faith does little to engender trust in the police and what they are there for.  I had a particular encounter myself this last year which really shocked me (non Covid related ) - One officer was completely arrogant and actually misquoted a specific law to me. The other one tried to play this down when we challenged them but they still threw their weight around initially,  almost high on their power,  over the most ridiculous issue which they had decided to appoint themselves as judge jury and virtually executioner over. It actually came to nothing within about ten minutes, but I will not forget the attitudes that I encountered.

Anyway, I digress. The Derbyshire Boys in Blue have had to back down over their actions with these ladies, and others, and quickly! See the link below:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55594244

By the way, I must add, for those who do not know me, that I am not suggesting folk break or bend the Covid rules and guidance, I just can't abide incompetence,  by those in "authority" in particular!

A reservoir will likely never be completely local for anyone , as in a short walk  from their home, as they are usually in a rural setting with no houses immediately close. In fact , we actually are lucky enough to live in a pretty small village  and there are a couple of local reservoirs. The  main one is about 1/1.5 miles from our home and we have both walked and driven there regularly over the last 9 months. The circular walk is about 2 miles, so, if we have time ( Mike working from home) we walk there, but on these shorter, darker,  winter days, we may only manage our once a day walk if we drive there. It's also 10 miles to a supermarket ! So we have sometimes combined the supermarket trip ( where only one of us goes in the store ) with a walk as well.

Mind how you go, Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

This message was edited by Karen&Mike on Jan-9-21 @ 1:18 AM

Karen&Mike
Jan-09-2021 @ 1:09 AM                           Permalink
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In another recently reported Norfolk story, sent to me today by friends. there was a very clear and blatant example of travelling way too far (by anyones standards) Definitely can't class this as a "local" trip even without a clear definition of local   Smile  


https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/northamptonshire-couple-receive-fine-after-breaking-lockdown-rules-6892676

Karen


"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"

Dzign
Jan-09-2021 @ 11:14 AM                           Permalink
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I noticed in that article a link to another story about a Swaffam councillor who went for a walk around town whilst in isolation, she had actually been tested positive for covid she didn't even wear a mask, she claimed she didn't know you couldn't leave your house to exercise when you were in isolation.
The police had a call about a car stuck in the snow in Cheshire, when they got there there was at least 10 cars stuck, it was going dark there were a lot of kids under 10 yrs old the police had to make arrangements with a local farmer to use his yard and this gang had to walk 1.5 mls in the snow to the farm, they then had to be transported home, NONE of them lived in Cheshire.....
I don't know why we are even bothering if people are not going to comply, we are wasting our time.
I don't think the police were to heavy handed and need to be more so.
I do agree the police are at best pathetic

L

Paladine
Jan-09-2021 @ 12:26 PM                           Permalink
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The legislation is vague, as might be expected, as it has to try to cover a myriad of different circumstances, but the HMG guidance is clear:

"If you need to travel you should stay local – meaning avoiding travelling outside of your village, town or the part of a city where you live...

...outdoor exercise. This should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel a short distance within your area to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)"


I've embolden parts of that guidance that is conveniently ignored by some. If you drive by a number of public open spaces to reach the one you've set your heart on visiting, then, IMO, you deserve everything you get.

The meaning of ‘local’ will be found in the same answer to the question ’how long is a piece of string?”

My ‘local’ butcher is three miles away.
The ‘local’ free newspaper is delivered throughout North Norfolk.
My ‘local’ newspaper is circulated in Norfolk, northern parts of Suffolk and eastern Cambridgeshire.
But I can walk out of my house and spend an hour or two walking around my ‘local’ lanes and never be more than half a mile away from home (as the bittern flies).

It is usual, when legislation is being interpreted and is not specific about any particular point, for the courts to try to establish the intention of parliament in passing that legislation. I think the intention of parliament is very, very clear in this case. I'm very surprised that the barrister consulted by the BBC didn't make that point. Perhaps he can see some fat fees coming his way.

I think (hope) one of two things will happen:

1. A case is taken to court, appealed and a ruling is made on what ‘local’ means in the context of the current health regulations.

2. A specified distance restriction will be imposed, and strongly enforced (as happened in Wales).

Continuing to rely on the good sense of citizens has been proven to be ineffective.




"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


This message was edited by Paladine on Jan-9-21 @ 12:27 PM

ruby
Jan-09-2021 @ 2:08 PM                           Permalink
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My interpretation of the intent was until recently 5 mile's radius of home as that would cover all neighbourhoods, virtually all towns and parts of most cities which are the words used in the English guidance .
However the reclassification of fishing from recreation to exercise has driven a coach and horses through my logic as many houses do not have fresh water fishing waters or the sea within five miles or even 50 miles come to that .

Graham

Alone1
Jan-09-2021 @ 3:26 PM                           Permalink
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Then do a different sort of exercise where you can stay 'local'!

Bob Huppendoun

There would be no life without water!!!

ruby
Jan-09-2021 @ 3:29 PM                           Permalink
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I did not mean for me,just a comment on the illogicality of the latest guidance. Far prefer the clarity of the Welsh rules

TerryTibbs
Jan-09-2021 @ 3:58 PM                           Permalink
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The whole situation is ludicrous, Im a fisherman and could make a good case to justify the type of fishing I do as exercise, I lure fish for Pike so if I went tomorrow to the river,I would probably walk between 5-10 miles. Constantly casting the lure and retrieving carrying a rucksack weighing approx 10 kgs a landing net and an unhooking mat but if I took a flask of tea and a sandwich, I would be b4eaking the guidelines as that would be classed as a picnic. So I can go fishing but I cant have a drink or sandwich to keep warm.
But why should fisherman be treated any different from other groups just becsuse they have a powerful lobby? It is stupidity.

if it is to be it is up to me.

Dzign
Jan-09-2021 @ 4:13 PM                           Permalink
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Agreed I'm a fisherman but can't quite fathom out why golf is not allowed it must be more exercising than the average angler would get, unless it's to stop them gathering and being to close.

L

L'sBelles
Jan-09-2021 @ 11:51 PM                           Permalink
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"Agreed I'm a fisherman but can't quite fathom out why golf is not allowed it must be more exercising than the average angler would get, unless it's to stop them gathering and being to close."

Presumably it's a case of he who shouts loudest.
It has taken considerable lobbying by the fishing fraternity to get the HMG cessation notice overturned and there is no one shouting loudly enough on behalf of golfers.
I do not partake of either activity so I am not bothered either way and have only left my village once since before Christmas for a 4 mile trip to the "local" supermarket to buy food.
This is why I cannot politely express my anger when I hear of people travelling from Northamptonshire to the Norfolk coast under the pretence of watching some seals and we are still allowing people to fly in and out of the country on the back of a test which is not 100% conclusive and only confirms that it cannot detect the virus at the time of the test.
Evidently the flat rate £200 fine is insufficient deterent against travel and perhaps it should be scaled in relation to distance from home?

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