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The Norfolk Broads Forum / General Chat / Cruisers Stuck on breydon water could take days to free !
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Posted By Discussion Topic: Cruisers Stuck on breydon water could take days to free !

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steve
Apr-25-2022 @ 1:55 PM                           Permalink
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More on yesterdays incident on breydon water and to encourage debate here and let the section it was reported in continue with broads emergency shouts ,

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/bid-to-free-cruisers-stuck-on-norfolk-broads-8919040

steve and vicky
( not a broads local,so my views ,knowledge doesn't count )


This message was edited by steve on Apr-25-22 @ 2:00 PM

annville
Apr-25-2022 @ 3:45 PM                           Permalink
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Thanks for that Steve It does add a bit more flesh so to speak, not quite sure why they would have to wait three days for tide to arrive But!!! Once again thanks . John

Cocklegat
Apr-25-2022 @ 4:50 PM                           Permalink
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Steve, I think you said "The Broads Authority is not a rescue organisation".  
Possibly then a distinction should be made as to what constitutes an emergency and what is defined as a duty of care to boaters. Am I right in thinking the BA had a boat specifically for assistance on Breydon? Also as a harbour Authority the BA should take more responsibility into assistance in a situation like this. Some more updating may be required here into the Authorities Port Marine safety code. At present this states: Liaise with the Police, Coastguard and other emergency services to ensure that the Authority’s personnel and resources are appropriately used in emergency situations. Take part in emergency exercises ensuring that the Authority takes a proper role in exercises and emergency response training. Prepare emergency/major incident plans. Assume the role of designated person under the Oil Pollution Preparedness, Response and Co-operation (OPRC) regulations. . [Note: This is not to be confused with the “Designated Person” identified by the Port Marine Safety Code.] Provide leadership and assume responsibility in incident or emergency situations including oil spill incidents. As appropriate, to be included in the emergency call-out list provided to police, coastguard and emergency services and, in the event of an incident, to attend and help mobilise the Authority’s response.


steve
Apr-25-2022 @ 5:29 PM                           Permalink
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" Steve, I think you said "The Broads Authority is not a rescue organisation " sorry not me , i think you're getting me confused with " dykedweller " post on the other thread ,

steve and vicky
( not a broads local,so my views ,knowledge doesn't count )


This message was edited by steve on Apr-25-22 @ 5:48 PM

Paladine
Apr-25-2022 @ 7:41 PM                           Permalink
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Cocklegat wrote, ” Steve, I think you said "The Broads Authority is not a rescue organisation".  
Possibly then a distinction should be made as to what constitutes an emergency and what is defined as a duty of care to boaters. Am I right in thinking the BA had a boat specifically for assistance on Breydon? Also as a harbour Authority the BA should take more responsibility into assistance in a situation like this. Some more updating may be required here into the Authorities Port Marine safety code.”


Section 3.9 of the Port Marine Safety Code says: ”The Civil Contingencies Act 2004 provides a framework for civil protection in the event of an emergency that threatens serious damage to human welfare, the environment or security. Harbour authorities are classified as category 2 "cooperating bodies". They will be involved in the associated planning work, and heavily involved in incidents that affect their sector. They are responsible for co-operating and sharing relevant information with category 1 (emergency services and local authorities) and other category 2 responders.”

So the distinction is not made between what is or isn’t an emergency, but who is or isn’t an emergency responder. The Broads No-Authority isn’t.

In their towing policy, there appears the following:

"In accordance with the Port Marine Safety Code, the Broads Authority needs to lay down guidance for towing within the navigation area. It is the Authority’s policy that it will:

a) Respond to emergencies for recreational vessels if BA vessels are available providing that prevailing conditions are favourable.
b) In cases of emergency, tow vessels to a safe mooring or safe situation or recover passengers and crew
c) Maintain towing capability for recreational vessels in an emergency or access to such capability through a register of competent operators, for situations reasonably expected to be encountered on the Broads, and keep this capability under review;
d) Develop and maintain risk assessments of towing activities for various types of boats (e.g. day boats, yachts, etc) in various circumstances (e.g. propulsion failure etc.);
e) Ensure that Authority personnel involved in towing have appropriate equipment for the task, are suitably trained, and are competent;
f) Ensure that any third parties employed by the Authority for towing activities have suitable equipment and are trained and competent to the same extent, in accordance with the BA towing specification
g) Share towing information with other users or authorities via relevant fora;
h) Keep this policy under review as part of the planned monitoring and auditing of the Safety Management System;
i) Act in a proportionate and timely manner to address any perceivedshortfalls in this policy.
j) Require that towing of commercial vessel is in line with the requirements laid down in the Navigation Works Guidance."


Probably the most important information to note is:

”a) Respond to emergencies for recreational vessels if BA vessels are available providing that prevailing conditions are favourable

The emergency services respond come hell or high water, 24/7/365.


Been hit by another boat? Report the incident to the Marine Accident Investigation Branch’s dedicated accident reporting line on 023 8023 2527 which is monitored 24 hours a day.  Help to make the Broads safer.

JollyRodger
Apr-25-2022 @ 7:53 PM                           Permalink
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My firm belief is that there is much confusion regarding the BA's role as Harbour Authority, not least at Yare House itself. In its pre-JP days, the Authority employed a Master Mariner in the form of Mark Wakelin. Mark was widely respected across Broadland but seemingly not by JP. Perhaps that was because Mark knew far more about the Broads than ever did JP thus Mark took his knowledge and ability elsewhere, down to the Beaulieu River in Hampshire. His post effectively ceased to exist and he was not replaced. Following his demise, the Authority appeared to have ceased to be a valid Harbour Authority, the Navigation Committee's input demoted to that of a consultative body that was only listened to when it suited the official agenda.  

Jolly Roger

This message was edited by JollyRodger on Apr-25-22 @ 7:58 PM

Stingers
Apr-25-2022 @ 9:31 PM                           Permalink
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The emergency services respond come hell or high water...

Yes that's right and it costs the BnA nothing to have them covering the Harbour Authority's back yard. Given the expanse of these mudflats and the difficulty the BnA have accessing multiple groundings every year, they should be better equipped to handle these situations. In theory, breakdowns and hirers manoeuvring outside the marked channel should never happen - but they do! So, as a boy scout would say - be prepared.

Andy

JollyRodger
Apr-25-2022 @ 10:14 PM                           Permalink
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The BA did provide the Spirit of Breydon, a safety vessel that was clearly unsuited to the role, as were the 'office' hours in which it operated.

Jolly Roger

Philosophic
Apr-26-2022 @ 2:11 AM                           Permalink
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I can remember when all the Broads Ranger launches were fitted with towing posts amidships; and indeed was once towed from Barton Broad to Irstead following a mechanical failure.

Most people spend more time and energy going around problems than in trying to solve them.

Henry Ford


This message was edited by Philosophic on Apr-26-22 @ 2:14 AM

Cocklegat
Apr-26-2022 @ 1:06 PM                           Permalink
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First of all, once again, I have no problem with what transpired on this particular occasion and in particular no criticism of the BA to that response.
However there is clearly room for improvement with procedures in safety management. While the BA is most certainly not an emergency service it does however still play an important role as a Harbour Authority as laid out in section 11 of its SMS. Also ,under this system risk is based on the ALARP principle.  Two elements here, one is the likelihood of an event.......hire boat running aground on Breydon would be classed as "very frequent"(Summer) The consequence would be classed as "Moderate" In other words we frequently see hire boats aground on Breydon and the consequences might be moderate (possible one major injury) Under the system this immediately flags up an "intolerable risk"  To mitigate this the BA has indeed implemented various plans and systems (One reason we have such a good team at GY)
While not referring to any specific case, What justification is there to immediately engage the emergency services baring in mind that there is no or little danger to life and the simple procedure of standing by, passing a line and waiting for the tide would suffice(in most cases). This is a difficult call because any additional imformation where the situation might change could quickly require the resources of the emergency services to be brought in. Historically hire boats have always gone aground on Breydon and until recent years, there they sat until high tide where they usually managed to float free, no-one would have ever call the coastguard. These days we have instant communications, the people on the boat can speak to the Hireboat company the BA and indeed the Coastguard.  When we call emergency services we put in process a system primarily concerned with saving life, calling out a search & rescue helicopter must be hugely expensive and also pulls that service away from any other emergency. This is basically why procedures need to be changed probably with both the BA and also the coastguard.

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