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Mon, 11 Apr 2016 7:20 am BST- Light Rain
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Posted By Discussion Topic: Boats usage from 5/11/20 ?

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L'sBelles
Nov-03-2020 @ 4:23 PM                           Permalink
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"So there is a form of SOBN for boats, but it is very limited in its scope."

Not really comparable, though. SORN is voluntary and no reasons are necessary but what the BA offer is extremely limited and does not apply if restrictions are enforced upon you.

I understand that there is a difference in scale between the waterways and highways of the UK but the BA do appear to dictate with a heavy hand rather than considering a more sensitive approach may gain them better appreciation.
They could, for example, offer a toll validity extension for the restricted periods or even a token 10% discount which would not be prohibitively costly to them for the sake of retaining boat owner confidence but that does not even occur to them. It's continually "pay up or else"!

Marshman
Nov-03-2020 @ 6:04 PM                           Permalink
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Much as it will displease many people to hear me say this, the BA can ill afford to lose any more revenue! The loss this year of the 60 odd hire boats will have made a pretty big hole in the budget already and will have to be filled.

If you all read the Minutes from the NavComm meeting you will be well aware that the current Tolls computer is so old it runs on steam and the replacement of that alone will be expensive. The Broads are not really comparable to the road network and as far as I am aware, no other water network operates a similar SORN system. Please correct me if I am wrong.

That is not meant to justify the lack of it, at all, but I am not even sure the Tolls Dept at Yare Towers could cope without adding more members of staff - someone would have to pay them and guess who that would be.

The Broads still have to be kept open and even in lockdown work is ongoing with dredging being done in several places. Don't forget that the Broads are still a special place and whilst the toll is a major cost, I, for one, still appreciate it so very much despite that. It would cost me more to move to almost any other system and almost for that reason alone, whilst I do not like paying it, I still see it as part of the cost of being able to enjoy this special place.

Marshman
Nov-03-2020 @ 6:11 PM                           Permalink
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Incidentally, I agree with Pally's comments earlier. No sooner was the announcement made, than the BA issued their interpretation - could they not have waited until the legislation was actually in place? Surely it is not that urgent? Most people will readily stick to the rules anyway and whilst the odd one or two will struggle to winterise their boats by tomorrow night, are the odd one or two who cannot, going to be the cause of a huge uptick in local numbers of Covid infections?

L'sBelles
Nov-04-2020 @ 5:10 PM                           Permalink
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"If you all read the Minutes from the NavComm meeting you will be well aware that the current Tolls computer is so old it runs on steam and the replacement of that alone will be expensive."

If the BA tolls computer runs on steam we should all get one as it is extremely efficient!
Purchased my boat Thursday and first post Saturday I had a letter requesting that I part with my toll money.
So the notification of sale to the BA from the previous owner, action by the BA to tie up my details with the boat and calculate the toll payable, dropping the letter into the Royal Mail, and Postman Pat to deliver the letter to my doormat was under two days.
I wonder how long it would take the BA to action something other than toll payment to them?
The answer was over two months and 3 phone calls to get my registration number stickers to replace those obliterated by a repaint so that I could comply with another of their rules.
Poor, poor BA.
Don't forget not all Broads boat owners are retired on final salary pension schemes, some are furloughed (and don't receive 80% salary as the benefit is capped) and worse still others have lost their jobs completely. You may find there is a significant reduction in private ownership next year to compliment this year's hire fleets reduction.



This message was edited by L'sBelles on Nov-4-20 @ 5:13 PM

Paladine
Nov-04-2020 @ 8:25 PM                           Permalink
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The new Covid-19 regulations that were passed by parliament this afternoon, and which come into force at midnight tonight, can now be read, in their entirety, here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1200/made

They seem to be easy to understand, are not as draconian as those made in March, and, so far, I have not found anything in them that precludes the use of our boats.

I will be guided by those regulations, rather than any interpretation the Broads Authority puts on them, although I will be very interested in just what that interpretation might be.

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)

steve
Nov-04-2020 @ 8:57 PM                           Permalink
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From BA Facebook page
" Further update to 5 November lockdown and the Broads

We and other organisations are still waiting for further details to be issued by the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) regarding issues such as paddle sports, angling from vessels and night-fishing. We are expecting an announcement in the near future.

Regarding those who are already on holiday, the Government guidance has been updated to state 'if you were already on holiday, you should return to your home as soon as practical and comply with the stay at home requirements in your holiday accommodation in the meantime.'

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) has advised the Broads Authority and other inland navigation authorities that ‘winterising’ boats and other planned maintenance by the general public is not permitted under the restrictions as it is not classed as ‘essential travel’. Under the regulations private boat maintenance businesses may still be operating and are able to provide services for boat owners.

The Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) has advised us that it is following current UK Government advice ‘Guidance for people working in, visiting or delivering to other people's homes’. BSS examinations will continue where it is safe to do so. The advice for boat owners is to continue to contact an examiner to arrange their boat’s examination as per usual if one is required. Current BSS Certification expiry dates are not being extended as they were in the previous lockdown.

Where a boat is not available to be examined due to COVID-19 related issues and a BSS certification is needed to support a necessary licence application, a registration or a toll, then the owner needs to liaise with the Broads Authority.

Finally, according to British Marine, marinas can remain open for business services including (but not limited to) boatyard, boat servicing and tenants. Chandleries and other non-essential retail can remain open for delivery to customers, click and collect and to supply the marine trade.

For further information about making BSS examination arrangements visit: www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination-and-certification/arranging-the-examination/

For full Coronavirus information please see: https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/news/coronavirus-covid-19

steve and vicky
( apparently a moaner)

Paladine
Nov-04-2020 @ 11:08 PM                           Permalink
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Hmmmm, just a couple of points spring to mind.

"We and other organisations are still waiting for further details to be issued by the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) regarding issues such as paddle sports, angling from vessels and night-fishing."

The regulations allow a person "...to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation..."

Try searching 'open air recreation'. The list will include such activities as camping, fishing, cycling, canoeing, kayaking, sailing and motorboating. All of these activities take place in the Broads. There is no mention in the regulations about the time any of these activities must take place, nor over what period of time.

"The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) has advised the Broads Authority and other inland navigation authorities that ‘winterising’ boats and other planned maintenance by the general public is not permitted under the restrictions as it is not classed as ‘essential travel’."

The expression "essential travel" is not used in the regulations, so DEFRA's advice that there is a blanket ban introduced by these regulations is more than suspect. There may have been local restrictions regarding essential travel under the Tier regulations, but they were repealed by these new regs.

RTFM!!!



"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


This message was edited by Paladine on Nov-4-20 @ 11:09 PM

Dykedweller
Nov-05-2020 @ 8:18 AM                           Permalink
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Restrictions on leaving home
5.—(1) No person may leave or be outside of the place where they are living without reasonable excuse..

I have looked through the “reasonable excuses” in Section 6 and cannot find anything that says to ‘visit your boat’.

RTFM again!

For goodness sake peeps suck it up, it’s only for 4 weeks.



This message was edited by Dykedweller on Nov-5-20 @ 8:33 AM

Paladine
Nov-05-2020 @ 8:57 AM                           Permalink
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It’s no good simply pointing out bits of the regulations that suit your argument. There are exceptions to the ‘don’t leave home’ restriction, which must be taken into account.

Private boating, in all its forms, is an open air recreational activity, and is permitted. As is exercise, which could be running for miles, or just walking a few hundred yards with a walking frame.

It is naive to expect any legislation to specify its effect in the minutest detail. I would point to the literal rule of statutory interpretation which says that, unless defined in the statute, the words of the statute are given their natural or ordinary meaning and applied without seeking to put a gloss on the words or seeking to make sense of the statute.



"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


This message was edited by Paladine on Nov-5-20 @ 9:03 AM

ruby
Nov-05-2020 @ 10:42 AM                           Permalink
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Just to make sure I have got this right.

I can drive to my boat and fish or exercise from it at its mooring .

I can employ someone else to drive to my boat and work on it.

But I can't drive to my boat and work on it myself.

Am I missing something ?

Graham

L'sBelles
Nov-05-2020 @ 11:16 AM                           Permalink
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"I can employ someone else to drive to my boat and work on it.
But I can't drive to my boat and work on it myself."

That's the way I read the legislation. Daft, isn't it?
A bit like stopping people going into outdoor football grounds but allowing them to group together indoors and watch it on a TV screen or not allowing single players go for a round of golf as part of their exercise.

Like many of these emergency Government Bills it is simply a jumble of knee jerk reactions with no joined up thinking. I see that Liverpool infection rates have been falling rapidly since Tier 3 was introduced a few weeks ago with Knowsley going from the country's worst to 36th worst area but none of the "experts" wanted you to know that prior to the lock-down 2 commencing.

In mitigation, my wife and I have applied common sense since this all started in March and have not socialised indoors with anyone other than her mother who we care for so apart from my restoration work having to cease on our boat for the duration of this latest panic we will not really notice any difference!

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