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Posted By Discussion Topic: Accurate Tide Tables

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Marshman
Mar-16-2016 @ 4:51 PM                           Permalink
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Mardles sometimes
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Perhaps the real issue is that the tides don't themselves have access to the tables?

Not unusual for the tides to be quite a long way out due to other factors especially the further you are away from the sea.

LeoMagill
Mar-16-2016 @ 6:59 PM                           Permalink
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I've had to wait around for an hour before in open water waiting for the tide to happen to get into the Ore before, it's always going to be worse in the rivers themselves.
I doubt any will be more or less acurate as the broads ones will be a set of corrections to lowestoft times as will any proper coastal ones as it's the nearest standard port.

If you don't like what I say don't hurl abuse at the boat, I've sold it...

dannyboy
Mar-16-2016 @ 7:00 PM                           Permalink
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Mardles sometimes
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I like that Marshman!

We use the BA tide tables on board (and the website at other times) and they are usually not far off but, in the end, looking over the side helps. It depends what you want them for, as to how vital it is that they are bang on accurate. If you are planning a Breydon crossing, then allow time to moor up if necessary to wait for slack water, rather than aim for exactly the time you think the tables indicate.

I think the various options use the same source material (please correct me someone, if I have that wrong), but opinions differ as to the amount of time you should add to the Yarmouth times to get accurate tide times for your boating area.

At PH where I moor, I usually add 4, but some tables say 3...



Danny


Simondo
Mar-16-2016 @ 11:59 PM                           Permalink
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Another to try but not sure on accuracy

Brundall tides

you can obviously change the area

Speleologist
Mar-17-2016 @ 8:54 AM                           Permalink
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There are several issues affecting the accuracy of tide tables. These relate to both how the prediction is created and how external factors affect what happens.

To take the first, the most accurate predictions available in this country come from the UK Hydrographic Office. This is the source used for naultical almanacs and many published tide tables for ports. However ther data is copyright and there is a fee to republish it. This means that many websites use free data from simpler models that are less accurate.

Next are the external factors. Wind strength and direction, atmospheric pressure, rainfall and the condition of the ground in the catchment can all affect the height or time of the tide or both. Tide heights will often be lower than prediction in high pressure and higher in low pressure. An onshore wind can delay the ebb. Heavy rainfall can delay the flood, increase the height etc. The extent of the impact of rainfall can be increased if the ground is saturated or baked hard.

There is another factor, particularly noticeable on the lower Bure near Great Yarmouth. After the tide turns the flow will still be downstream on the Bure, even thought the tide is rising. Later in the flood (after slack water), although the flow at depth is upstream, the flow on the surface can be downstream, which gives an impression that the tide is still ebbing when it actually isn't. After heavy rain this phenomenum can last throughout the flood, but it is at the surface only.

Edited for typos.

Robin
www.robin.me.uk
"Posthabui tamen illorum mea seria ludo"


This message was edited by Speleologist on Mar-17-16 @ 1:41 PM

Coriolis
Mar-17-2016 @ 1:05 PM                           Permalink
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Fully agree - the tide tables are all generally in close agreement with each other, once you weed out differences in locations (some are given for Yarmouth Bar, other for the Yacht Station, etc, etc), but the water can't read and will do whatever it does on the day.

You won't find tables any more accurate than those already out there, wherever you look - as said at the top, they're only predictions and the world sometimes changes its mind....

dannyboy
Mar-17-2016 @ 1:36 PM                           Permalink
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Mardles sometimes
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Robin, very helpful post... Do you know what source the BA use?  I am guessing they use the best source they can? But that's just a guess...  Wink

Danny


waterbuoy
Mar-17-2016 @ 2:21 PM                           Permalink
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According to BA's web site they use "Proudman Oceanographic Laboratory: Copyright Reserved http://www.pol.ac.uk"

Clive

Home - IP11 & Away - NR12

Speleologist
Mar-17-2016 @ 2:39 PM                           Permalink
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Danny, the ones in Broadcaster use data from Proudman Oceanographic Laboratory. My guess is they are cheaper than UKHO.

Robin
www.robin.me.uk
"Posthabui tamen illorum mea seria ludo"

Coriolis
Mar-17-2016 @ 4:45 PM                           Permalink
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NSBA's tables in the Green Book (available foc online, but much better if you're a member, go on, you know you want to)

have always done me proud - right down to hard to misunderstand the right time to transit Yarmouth for Breydon...

Captain-Joshie
Mar-17-2016 @ 5:31 PM                           Permalink
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Hi All

Today's slack period to cross Breydon was, according to our tables below, was 11:44 (i.e. Low water +1 hour). So I would've aimed to arrived at Yarmouth Yacht Station at 11:44 ready to go straight across Breydon. Happy Smile  boat-power that I am.

But today in the real world I was at ASDA doing the weekly shop Frown , I took Toby for walkies and noted what the tide was actually doing!!

Time was now 13:49 so way passed the tide tables 'right' time to cross, but what do i actually see? Well the tide is still very slightly coming out of the Bure and the tide is now slightly going into the Yare and Breydon, with the comical sight of a seagull on the water being drifted round in circles at the confluence of the Bure/Yare flows LOL.

So today it looks like the tide tables were out by at least 1 1\2 hours for what I would look at as an ideal crossing time, north to south slight push up the the Yare, south to north not to much of a flow out of the Bure to work against.

But as mentioned above all sorts of factors affect the tide times.

In general I now don't mind being slightly late getting to Yarmouth Y.S. say 3/4hr. as this usually is about right. I have found, more often than not, the tide is usually late doing what it should do LOL.

I always use the Shorebase tables below and print them out a month per page and carry them on board. Though they are also bookmarked on the iPhone and iPad  Smile .

John.

Kind regards, John(Captain
Joshie), Jo & Toby.
'Braveheart' L68 Broom
30/Skipper *
Listening out on PMR Ch4 when
on board*

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