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The Norfolk Broads Forum / General Chat / Seagoing C-in-C Gya - Lowestoft July 12th
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Posted By Discussion Topic: Seagoing C-in-C Gya - Lowestoft July 12th

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TerryTibbs
Dec-11-2014 @ 4:17 PM                           Permalink
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"It was indeed SLT that volunteered direct to me that this would happen and that they would get to the bottom of the matter and let me know their findings"
Griff from the letter it appears Sentinel promised a full investigation but I can see nowhere where they promise to get back to you with their findings.
"Dear Mr Griffin

RE:  Oulton Broad Yacht Station

We would like to formally apologise to you and your party members for the fact that Sentinel have not delivered the services to the standard that we should be delivering to you and your party. As mentioned yesterday we would like to continue working with you in the future and Chris and I would be happy to meet/discuss next year’s event at the appropriate time to guarantee its success.  

I will be conducting a full investigation into this matter and will take the appropriate course of action.  


Rob Johnson
Head of Operations

It mearly says he will take the appropriate course of action.

Dave

if it is to be it is up to me!

JBx5
Dec-11-2014 @ 5:21 PM                           Permalink
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(This post is aimed at the skippers / crews of those that assembled for the salty bottom cruise on 12th July this year)

Regards John



Paladine
Dec-11-2014 @ 6:06 PM                           Permalink
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JBx5, the person who posted that comment has, since making it, entered into discussion with me in this thread, so it was quite unnecessary for you to post it again. At least, what is being said on this forum is open to the public to read. Are you suggesting censorship be introduced on here?

Back in July, Pauline&Phill wrote in this thread, "The opening of the lock after closing is a separate issue and Griff is dealing with it separately as far as I can tell. Certainly not a good idea to have a 'trial by forum' on it!"

I fully support that view and the current discussion is more about thoughts on the true chain of command regarding the lock, rather than the specifics of what happened last July. For starters, the Broads Authority does not own Mutford Lock and the lock does not form part of the navigation area, as defined in Section 8 of the Norfolk & Suffolk Broads Act 1988. From here on, it gets more complicated, but I won't bog this thread down with my findings to date.

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Richard
Dec-12-2014 @ 1:40 AM                           Permalink
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I think it might be time to put some perspective on this matter as this is a long thread, and there are some confusing posts.

As I was involved with a lot of what went on I do have a good background on what went on.

The plan was to have a good party at Oulton Broad Yacht Station {OBYS). The majority arriving by car or boat via the Broads system.

Some people wanted to come down to the party via the sea route from Great Yarmouth to Lowestoft. There is a lot of logistics involved there making sure all the boats would be safe and that all bridge openings and lock throughs could be accomplished.

This was all done and was in hand, the yacht station was all ready for the event, and the organisers had a plan in place for the Saturday event.

Now on the day before, the Friday, an unfortunate event occurred. A holidaymaker, on a moored boat at OBYS had gone missing, and it was believed that he may have fallen into the Broad.

The area was closed off by the Authorities.

All of the emergency services spent the day trying to find out what had happened and find the missing individual, at that time the area was closed off while the authorities did their job.

Sadly in the mid afternoon a body was recovered. There was also a possibility that there might be another person missing.

Knowing what was going on all of the organisers liased with OBYS and a group decision was made to move the party to Beccles Yacht Station.

As there was a good possibility that the area might need to remain closed while a further search was made the seagoing folks were advised that it might be better to take the Broads route rather than the sea route, as they would be stuck in Lake Loathing and would not be able to get to the event.

This was agreed by seagoing organisers who would then contact all of the sea going group.

As a large booking and party had been arranged at OBYS there was a problem of a venue change. Sentinal offered Beccles Yacht Station AT NO CHARGE so that the party could continue. The organisers of the sea trip were fully informed of this, and were in agreement.

Thankfully it turned out that there was not another missing person, and OBYS was re-opened.

Due to the number of boats going to Beccles, staff had to be moved around, and additional staff called in to man the locks at Oulton Broad, when other boats needed to lock through.

Sentinal and the BA have done an investigation after a request made by Griff and to my knowledge they believe that the correct decisions were made with the information that was available in a very fluid situation.

So what it really comes down to is this.

What's more important; a fun sea trip and a party, or investigating the tragic loss of someone's life.

I'll leave it to you, the reader, to decide. I know how I feel.

Hylander
Dec-12-2014 @ 8:51 AM                           Permalink
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Definitely the latter.      No one can imagine or even want to come near to imagining the shock of the loss of a loved one, in these circumstances whilst on holiday on the Broads.

The 'event' still took place at Beccles YS.    A trip to sea can happen in the future, something that that poor chap who died will not have the luxury of, bless him.

There but for the Grace of God go I,  I believe is the saying.



Women dont nag they just point
things out...



M

CaptBryan
Dec-12-2014 @ 10:44 AM                           Permalink
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Perhaps allowance should be made for the effect on the staff involved and their thought process as well.
Having had to deal with the loss of a passenger on two occasions I know how it effected the cabin crew despite all the training for these events.

Captain Howe.

The Eagle may soar majestic,
but you don't suck a Stoat
into your jet engines.
Please leave the water and
banks as you would wish to
find them.

TerryTibbs
Dec-12-2014 @ 10:56 AM                           Permalink
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Well said Richard and CaptB.

Dave Smile

if it is to be it is up to me!

Paladine
Dec-12-2014 @ 11:22 AM                           Permalink
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”Sentinal and the BA have done an investigation after a request made by Griff and to my knowledge they believe that the correct decisions were made with the information that was available in a very fluid situation.

So what it really comes down to is this.

What's more important; a fun sea trip and a party, or investigating the tragic loss of someone's life.”


I am not unsympathetic and I agree with Hylander’s succinct response, but I don’t think it is as simple as ‘which is the more important’. Of course, there is no contest.

However, in the aftermath, I don’t think it is unreasonable for someone who has spent a great deal of time and effort on organisation to want answers to questions. I don’t know what those questions are, nor do I know what (if any) answers were given, but I can understand that a blanket ‘We did the right thing at the time’ might well be seen as unsatisfactory and, possibly, something of a cover-up.

I don’t subscribe to any conspiracy theory, but, if actions were taken in good faith, even if, with 20/20 hindsight, things could have been done differently or better, isn’t it good to have it out in the open? Regardless of any request, I would fully expect, after an incident of this nature, an examination of all issues to take place to establish whether procedures were sufficient and effective, or whether improvements could/should be made.


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TerryTibbs
Dec-12-2014 @ 11:52 AM                           Permalink
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" would fully expect, after an incident of this nature, an examination of all issues to take place to establish whether procedures were sufficient and effective, or whether improvements could/should be made"
Richard says that he believes an investigation has taken place, as you have previously stated this is not a public body so there is no compunction to reveal the details of that other than maybe out of courtesy but where do they draw the line, who do they reveal their findings to. It is an internal matter and will in all probability remain so as these things generally do.

Dave

if it is to be it is up to me!

Paladine
Dec-12-2014 @ 1:26 PM                           Permalink
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TT, I haven't suggested there is any compulsion to give answers, but a refusal to answer simple(?) questions may be seen as a bit suspect. I've had cause to make complaints to private companies over the years and have usually had reasonable responses.

Unfortunately, in this day and age, a complaint can often be regarded as a precursor to litigation, so a degree of circumspection is, perhaps, understandable.

Which takes me full circle to the question of who, precisely, is responsible? Mutford Lock is owned by ABP Ltd, which itself is owned by a consortium.

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TerryTibbs
Dec-12-2014 @ 3:01 PM                           Permalink
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"simple(?) questions" that's the whole point Pally, neither you nor I know the questions posed, personally I can't think of 12 question oops now 13 that are simple. To my mind there is only 1 relevant question and that is "was the flotiilla specifically precluded from using the lock for any reason other than the circumstances surrounding the tradegy".

Dave

if it is to be it is up to me!

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