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Posted By Discussion Topic: my poor old sunken boat

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Poor old seal.| SUNKEN BOAT| Sunken Boat| sunken boat| Another sunken boat|

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ncsl
Apr-02-2012 @ 10:36 AM                           Permalink
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I have up loaded the timelapse clip. a 2.45 minute video of the full days work.
this should be viewable on my channel here
A "normal" video will also be uploaded shortly but it is quiet noisey with the pumps and wind.

BTW if you view the picture I put on there early today - the one when I was leaving the site - and look at that you will see the stern - at near high water - compare that with the boat at LOW water in the video.
A BIG differance due to the no low water problem on the day.


Lord Paul of Sealand
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SOS247
Apr-02-2012 @ 10:58 AM                           Permalink
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It will be worth focusing the pumps in the bow area first, and then the stern etc, however each time you then need to seal any windows/holes/damage in the areas you are focusing on. Plus tighten mooring ropes etc to try & hold its position. The further the hull comes out of the water the more holes you can seal.

Obviously on each occasion you 'switch ends' the bow or stern will sink slower then before, so in affect you are bringing the boat up in a 'see-saw' fashion..... It will be hard and you need the team all working to the same plan as fast as possible, one mistake or one pump running out of fuel etc, will put you straight back to the beginning,  

Sounds easy..........  Frown

You may feel like King Cantue for a while but you will get there.



They say that 'Hard work never killed anyone' however, sleepless nights, stress, not taking breaks & not eating correctly may just get you there early!!

rads
Apr-02-2012 @ 11:33 AM                           Permalink
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This started of as a PM to John re underwater surveys, but grew a bit so though I would post it.

First of all, really good to meet so many nice people on Saturday. Think as a disparate group of amateurs we made a really good attempt at this, though very disappointed we were not able to get her up.

Slightly embarrassed by the comments about "those poor divers, up to their necks in water all day long" etc. Truth is, sealed up in a dry suit, with a proper thermal undersuit (think of it as a fitted, tailored duvet) I was toasty warm all day. Good covering of bioprene also helps!

My thoughts:

I'm not convinced the pumps were ever really making headway on Saturday, maybe saw an inch or so, but no more.

Obviously water is still getting in.

4 obvious areas water can get in:

1) Windows. I'm pretty sure the 3mm ply we were using was not strong enough to hold back the water pressure if we had ever managed to pump out the cabins. Very roughly, I think if those large rear windows were 4' x 2' (think they were actually quite a bit longer), the total pressure on the board would be approximately  500lbs, 35 stone! Not sure if I would even fancy 6mm board, prefer 12mm. Of course that become harder to cut and handle, and costs more.

I like the palm nailer suggested earlier (compressor needed). Banging in nails you can't see, 2 foot underwater is not easy. I'm not sure how good a job I did along the bottom edges of some of the boards.

All these problem are enormously reduced if the water level drops to near the deck level.

2) Cockpit side doors. These seemed to fit reasonably well. Reckon Polythene across the width of both sides would be water tight, but the structure seemed weak, maybe would need to think about some bracing.

3) Aft well and doors. Doors seemed a good fit. Apparently there are vents at the bottom, but probably the pumps could keep up? I wonder if the well floor is still in place, without it the bilges would effectively be open to the river. I wonder if we have to build a structure on the stern to seal the well? Either just a horizontal board nailed to the decks tight up against the doors plus a small piece to seal the cut out, or vertical boards nailed to the transom and the cabin sides, corners reinforced with 2x4s and cross braced, to bring the transom and the well up to the same level as the cabin sides.

4) Holes in the hull. Complete unknown. There is something happening on the starboard deck adjacent with the forecabin. There is a large hump in the deck where one of the fenders is still attached. Maybe this is just the deck lino, but it could also be that the tension from the fender, together with the wave action has actually lifted the deck. If we were to attempt an underwater survey, think at best we could complete the starboard side. She's probably reasonably flat bottomed, so not sure how far under we could get, and I think she's hard against the piling on the port side.

Now, this may lose me some friends.

I think we need to take a cold, hard look at what the best we can hope to achieve is.

Even if we do manage to float her, she's not a boat anymore, she's a project for someone who will have a major task on their hands. Engine, fuel tanks, water system, gas, instruments, electrics, soft furnishings canopies etc etc, without even considering any new damage or existing weakness in the structure of the hull. I'm no expert, but I doubt whether the finished article would ever be worth what you would have to pay a boatbuilder to do the work and I'm not sure that DIY is an option for Ade and Lesley.

Other option after she is raised would be to get Caravelle slipped and put on the hard somewhere and then try and sell her as a project, but how much is she worth in her current state?

I'm really not trying to be negative. I had FUN on Saturday, and will gladly have another go if we can pick a day with really low tides that gives us a chance of having the water close to deck level, but I think we have to acknowledge that this is unlikely to be an operation to salvage a viable boat for Ade and Lesley to enjoy in the future.

Would be delighted to be proved wrong.

David

mpe
Apr-02-2012 @ 12:10 PM                           Permalink
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UNLESS it is Navigators and General.
If it is don't even bother trying to make a claim

mpe
Apr-02-2012 @ 12:16 PM                           Permalink
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If there is fuel on board it is a danger to the enviroment - which is GOOD.

If there is a danger to the enviroment the fire brigade will pump her out FREE (but make sure) and if she CAN float patch her quick, maybe with a bit of tarp and some nails

Regulo
Apr-02-2012 @ 2:31 PM                           Permalink
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Sorry to learn of your efforts going unrewarded, good try everyone.

IMHO, we need to seriously consider the future viability of this boat. As Rads has said, it will be a complete re-build of her from bottom up, and inside out. Is it worth the expense and effort to raise her, if she's only going to end up being broken up when no-one can be found to undertake such a restoration? That, ultimately will be the owner's final decision, of course.

I don't know how viable this next suggestion is, but IF another attempt is made, could ropes/straps be passed under the hull, one end secured to the bank, the other to two or more strong boats positioned so as to power out towards mid river, to give a bit of lift as an aid to the pumps? Or is it too dangerous in the case of a rope breaking?

Regards, Ray.

If it's neither here, nor there, then where is it?

ncsl
Apr-02-2012 @ 2:32 PM                           Permalink
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The "normal" but highly reduced video clip is uploaded to here
A bit noisey due to the wind and pumps. Blush

Lord Paul of Sealand
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tarlatan
Apr-02-2012 @ 4:10 PM                           Permalink
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Hi all

Notwithstanding the financial considerations of what to do with the boat IF we raised it at a second attempt, it still has to come out of the water at some point.
Ade and Lesley will have to make their decision, but I was under the impression we were trying to help to mitigate their losses. Even if all we did is get it floating on its mooring, and patched up enough to get a shore power pump on board to keep it there, I reckon we would have helped a lot.
I will leave the decisions to them and the divers (they are taking the greatest risk here), but please see piccie below of something which may help!!
I have an account with Speedy and would be happy to see if they would be prepared to be generous with the hire rates for a day. This could be reversed up onto the bank next to the boat and will shift 550 cubic metres an hour.
My basic maths says a 10m boat of about 3m beam with 2m average headroom is 60 cubic metres in volume. Am I right in thinking thats only 6.5 minutes pumping?
OK - this assumes a sealed hull and a tide lower then the starboard windows and the transom/cockpit sole being sound, but even so - got to be the tool for the job.
If you all decide to have another crack, I will have a serious conversation with the area manager of Speedy and see what I can do.
By the way, 12mm ply is not an issue if thats what you need, we only used 3 sheets Saturday, so I will get 3 sheets of 12mm if required.
Good to meet you all.
Cheers

Steve


Attached File
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Perfectlady9
Apr-02-2012 @ 4:49 PM                           Permalink
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Textguys in dry suits, two in this case, three would be better’’

Griff, we had three, I was in my nice purple and blue number, I did notice it has a small leak in one leg as I had a wet foot by the end but kept me nice and warm.

I think like David said we need to seal off the whole transom with poly or something similar, I have a bigger staple gun I forgot to bring but it would hold 6mm ply ok.

Hire some big 6’’ pumps but they are quite expensive not sure if two 3’’ one would be cheaper.

I am available for another go if that’s is going ahead, just make sure I set the clock at the right time and don’t have another flood in my kitchen.

Doug.


This message was edited by Perfectlady9 on Apr-2-12 @ 4:51 PM

ncsl
Apr-02-2012 @ 5:00 PM                           Permalink
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If another attempt is to be made would the following be possible now that we know she is not stuck fast in the mud.
Would it be possible to get hold of a very large lorry trapoline or tilt  - articulate lorry size - and slide it under the boat and encase the boat in this thus making the whole boat "water proof" so to speak ?

Or am I just guessing !! Blush

Lord Paul of Sealand
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