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Mon, 11 Apr 2016 7:20 am BST- Light Rain
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Wind 2.0 mph @ 40°
48.0°F/8.89°C Humidity 93% Pressure 29.65 (S)

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Posted By Discussion Topic: BREYDON

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Sunchaser
Oct-28-2010 @ 8:32 AM                           Permalink
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On Saturday 16th October i took some friends out on the boat, our intension was to take them accross Breydon to Yarmouth.
My boat a Hampton Safari.
Predicted winds were 25 mph.
When we first hit Breydon it seemed relitivly calm, but as we started to hit open water it started to get rough.
We were going with the tide and against the wind.
The boat started to really go down into the water and up again, mud weight banging on the front.
My decision was to turn around.
When we turned around we were going against the tide and with the wind, the boat was just slidding across the top of the waves like a surf board.
My question is as these are not sea going boats, how much can they take?
Many people are on time restrictions and may have had to keep going.
Have any boats sunk through rough weather on the Broads?
We were too earley for Rangers to be out so there was not anybody to stop us.
Still we had a nice day, stopped at Reedham for refreshments and then on to The Royal Borough of Cantley for lunch.

All The Best


Malcolm

JennyMorgan
Oct-28-2010 @ 9:06 AM                           Permalink
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Why should anyone stop you? For all our sakes I hope they never do. You are the skipper, you decide. Strong wind against tide is always likely to be choppy, we had the same situation a few weeks ago, quite exhilarating, and we were in an open dayboat! Having gone so far without sinking, which you wouldn't have done, I would have carried on, stowing the mudweight so it didn't bash about. Might have been prudent to have slowed down though, but that would really only have been a comfort consideration.

I suspect that your Hampton can take rather more than its crew can! They were designed for the Broads, and Breydon is part of the Broads. Alec Hampton, who developed the boat, was no fool, I would trust his judgement.

Back in the sixties a Wilds bath-tub came very near to grief, in rather heavier winds, 25 m.p.h. is not exceptional. The problem was water over the foredeck and into the cockpit thus into the bilge and into the engine space, the design was modified after that. I have never heard of a sinking that was due solely to the weather.

Jenny Morgan,
A vane, a boat, but not a bird.
The Broads is NOT a National Park.

This message was edited by JennyMorgan on Oct-28-10 @ 9:29 AM

kfurbank
Oct-28-2010 @ 10:00 AM                           Permalink
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On the 3rd October having stayed at the Berney Arms for the night we decided to take a trip out across Breydon before heading back to the marina and home. It was very windy, no idea what speed. As we headed out to Breydon, it wasn't too bad, but the moment we headed right where it widens out, past the NRA jetty the wind was straight on the side of the boat. The wind was strong enough to create some quite significant waves which were hitting straight onto the port side and causing the boat to rock from side to side quite a bit. To counteract this we started to tack across Breydon so that the waves were alternating between being on the port side of the bow and then the port side of the stern. Even so it was still extremely rough.

We had only planned a round trip across Breydon and as we didn't need to pass through Yarmouth we decided to turn back and head back to the marina slightly earlier. The boat felt perfectly sturdy and I'm sure was able to handle the conditions, my main concern was the diesel tank getting stirred up and any crud making it's way to the filter and the engine cutting out. I always keep the fuel tank topped up and use an additive to stop any growth, but have no idea when it was last emptied and cleaned out. I suspect never in the 18 years since it was built. I really didn't fancy losing power and being blown sideways onto the mud.

As we headed back and got near to the NRA jetty we saw the BA launch loitering. They said nothing to us, possibly assuming we had come from Yarmouth and therefore already passed the worst, but they did pull alongside three boats coming towards us, two private, one hire and all three then turned back behind us. Whether they were ordered to, or given advice which was heeded, I do not know.

Under the new ACT the BA have the power to use special directions to close rivers on grounds of safety, but as far as I know Breydon has still not been formally adopted from the GYPA, and the area where we were and the BA launch was definetly GYPA. The BA may effectively have delegated powers from the hireyards to turn back hire boats on the grounds of safety, but surely not to turn back private boats, at the moment. I wasn't close enough to know whether the two private boats that turned back did so on advice, or were told to. I should mention that the two private boats were river cruisers, not sea going boats, which I'm sure would have had no problem with the conditions. Indeed if I had needed to cross through to Yarmouth, then I would have continued on, albeit tacking.

See Gary motor crusers can also tack too when weather conditions dictate  Playful

Keith

Still-Cruising
Oct-28-2010 @ 10:41 AM                           Permalink
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In the early 70’s we were out on Benmore (the wooden one) and came down to Yarmouth to cross Braydon. The rangers shouted to advise that there was a strong side wind, the water very rough and that crossing was not advised for some craft but that we should be OK if we were careful. As a precaution we covered the front well and put in the sidescreens. When we got out into the open it was blowing a houley with proper waves on the water which covered us in spray, with no windscreen wiper visibility was a bit limited at times and there was a bathtub type boat on the mud about 2/3ds across.  We pressed on and got to the Berney arms without any problems  and in our youth regarded it as a great adventure.  I would not want to do the same thing in our boat now because the bilge and old gas fridge ventilators’ are too close to the water.

Regards.

Bob

This message was edited by Still-Cruising on Oct-28-10 @ 12:38 PM

Strowager
Oct-28-2010 @ 10:54 AM                           Permalink
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"They were designed for the Broads, and Breydon is part of the Broads."

That's stretching the point a bit Peter, I think.

Given the nasty moods that Breydon can have at this time of year, the wave height can be significantly higher than elsewhere in the system. It would rank almost as CE category C, given a bad combination of wind and tide.

Given the Safari's very bluff bow and large glass areas, they are much less capable in significant waves than most similar sized craft with flared bows and smaller windows.

Keith's pint about the diesel tanks being stirred up is very valid too. As they are almost always only equipped with a mudweight, if the engine gave out, it would not save them from being swept away at some speed.



JollyRodger
Oct-28-2010 @ 12:02 PM                           Permalink
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The issue of sediment in a fuel tank is valid, but in a well maintained boat that should not be a problem. Whilst there is little or no tide on Hickling I do know that that can get pretty rough, as can any large expanse of water.

I do know the regular Breydon ranger, top chap, knows his job, goes coastal cruising in his own yacht. If he advises against crossing then I would follow his advice, but it can only be advice, and I am sure that he knows that.

The little Hampton Safari might have a bluff bow by modern day standards but they were all well built, surely up to coping with a force 5. Wind on the bow is not likely to be a problem, unlike side winds which can be for the slab sides of a low powered Broads boat.

If people feel uncomfortable with the condititions then they should turn back, prudant seamanship.

Jolly Rodger

Strowager
Oct-28-2010 @ 12:49 PM                           Permalink
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""but they were all well built"

No argument there JR, hire boats of that era were in the pioneering days of mass production fibreglass, and the yards made them very thick, around half an inch, very strong construction indeed.

The problem with inland hulls is that they are built to be as shallow draft and capacious as possible. They can broach easily and the very large glass windows, even the forward facing ones, could easily break if they took much over the bow, then they'd be shipping a lot of water (quite apart from the crew's discomfort !)

BroadAmbition
Oct-28-2010 @ 12:58 PM                           Permalink
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I would doubt that given the size of Breydon even on it's angriest days it could not mount significiant wave height to bother Broads boats, bother inexperienced crews - well maybe. The wind however is a differnet matter altogether.

We've had heavy spray over the front of 'B.A' and loved it


Griff

'Broad Ambition' - 'Dreams do come true' - Afloat at last 06-10-07

Forum Manly Swot 30-07-10

www.grifftile.co.uk

JollyRodger
Oct-28-2010 @ 1:02 PM                           Permalink
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Strowager, that is so alarming! Has it ever happened?



Jolly Rodger

Strowager
Oct-28-2010 @ 1:23 PM                           Permalink
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"Strowager, that is so alarming! Has it ever happened?"

I'm not sure if I'm being "humored" here !

I readily admit I know of no actual instances occurring on Breydon, but there are many recorded instances of large boat windows caving in through wave action.

Griff's mention of enjoying heavy spray over BA is
quite understandable. Even in the small avatar, you can see that she's quite a different forward profile to a Safari. High bow and very small forward windows, quite different to the flat bow and large windscreen of Safaris. Smile  

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