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Posted By Discussion Topic: My little project - Honest opinions needed

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watermonkey
Jul-18-2005 @ 12:55 PM                           Permalink
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Apart from the bought maps, are there any online maps of the broads which have the pubs and/or moorings on?

I remember this being asked before, but I don't remember a definitive answer?

If not, I'm not averse to starting a web site (maybe linked here?) where we could put a map up and then put links on the pubs and moorings so that you could have reviews behind them.

billmaxted
Jul-18-2005 @ 1:02 PM                           Permalink
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Don't forget Paul's Shorebase Map

"I know we are up the bank, but I didn't think the ducklings were going to get out of the way"  Bill...

roya
Jul-18-2005 @ 2:03 PM                           Permalink
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Craig all credit ,
a big Spot on from me. Smile

roya

now about my bilges.

craigspc2000
Jul-18-2005 @ 12:13 AM                           Permalink
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Thanks for the kind comments, I feel much better now. Smile

From the current responses, I was thinking that it may be an idea to make this map a little more personalised for forum members and I really like the idea of adding features like mooring information etc.  

Considering that we already have sites like Craig’s database of boats, as well as numerous text based databases of things like pubs etc, how would you feel about the map being turned into a visual database of riverside features?  

On Bill’s point of information being out of date, this really was hard to overcome, particularly in the beginning. However, I've tried to cross reference every inch of what I've done so far with top-down satellite images that I have from around 2002.  The images I have are not always of the greatest resolution, but they've been really helpful with marking out the correct location of boat dykes/cuts etc.

Modifying, updating, and adding features to the map wouldn’t be much of a problem from my end because I have everything stored on separate layers.  However, I’d have to find some way of making usable online.  For example, Hickling broad (including Catfield dyke) is 3600x2100 pixels in size, so by the time I’m done, it’s going to be huge.

Actually, I think the only way that you’ll be able to get a feel for things is if you can see a proper sample of what I’ve been up to. Let me see if I can strip an area down to the basics and compress it a bit.  If I can get it small enough, then I’ll post a full sized sample in a moment.

<<20 mins have passed>>

Right, here you go…. If you zoom in on the image, you'll see what I mean about it bein a bit of a handful.  If anyone has a good idea on how to implement it on a website then I'd be happy to get ideas from you.  Also, if there are any ideas on how to make it possible for people to submit items for the map that would be nice too.  Perhaps Bills idea of trying to contact the Warden would be best, but I guess that this would only cover a small area of the whole map.

Cheers,
Craig(2)

This message was edited by craigspc2000 on Jul-19-05 @ 7:37 AM


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Paul
Jul-19-2005 @ 9:29 AM                           Permalink
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I think it's a great idea Craig(2).

I found download size to be the limiting factor when I did the Shorebase maps. It was in my pre-broadband days, but I found that around 2000 x 2000 pixels was the limit once detail has been added to the maps, (and even though I'm on broadband now, many/most visitors are not.) The other problem is bandwidth. Now that my site gets a lot of use (thank you  Smile  ), the 'bandwidth' has crept up to over 5 gBytes per month, which costs !  Site statistics show that it the main 'hits' are the maps, photos and tide calc.

But, a very large, detailed, scale online map of the Broads is a very good idea, especially if it can convey otherwise unavailabe information, eg casual mooring sites, good fishing spots etc.

As for ideas on how to implement it on a website, here's how I do it on shorebase. This image acts as the key map, which has 'hotspots' to open the main maps in full screen.


if you click   http://www.shorebase.co.uk/broads/menus/shorebase_maps.asp  you'll get the working key map in one of Richard's popup windows.    Smile

Denise
Jul-19-2005 @ 9:29 AM                           Permalink
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That is really clever stuff Craig.

Like Bill says, it would be useful to know which bits are accessible by rowing boat - avoiding those which are private. We'd certainly make good use of that (if we ever manage to get under Potter bridge again! Wink )

Something else...... have you thought about copyrights? This could well be a valuable resource & you don't want anyone else benefiting from your hard work!

craigspc2000
Jul-19-2005 @ 10:53 AM                           Permalink
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Thanks Denise.  As it happens, Paul has offered some very helpful advice on how to be careful of breaching other people's copyright.  Unfortunately, I never even considered the other way around.  Don't you automatically own the copyright to your own work?  I'd be happy for people to make the most out of my work, but it would make me a bit sad if anyone took credit for my work or used it for their own profit.

Paul, as before, thanks again for all the advice you have offered.  However, I'm now becoming concerned about my work conflicting with your own.  You have done a magnificent job with your map and website and the last thing I want to do is copy your work.  This is definitely something that I think we aught to discuss.

Cheers,
Craig(2)  

billmaxted
Jul-19-2005 @ 10:56 AM                           Permalink
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Is a possible answer to use Paul’s map as an index and mark on it squares which represent a series of detailed maps based on your researches and have ‘click ons’ which produce a link on a particular page on your site rather than one big map, which then pops up. Does this help with band width? You could then also orient the map to show what you want to show without vast areas of meadow. It would also mean that you had finished bits whilst still working on others.

The copyright marking is important even the Broads Authority might be interested in them because they did not seem to have anything really detailed for their moorings survey. They are pretty tight about money but might be prepared to cover your costs. But I would not let them just use them with nothing more than just a credit. Formal moorings informal mooring and boatyards could all be denoted by a icon of some sort (maybe with the approximate length alongside it. Maybe Navigable, rowable and Non navigable could be shown in different shades of the same colour the deepest for the Navigable bit would seem to make sense. Electric charging points and pubs might be worthy additions plus slipways if someone was bringing a boat by road.

Just a thought


"I know we are up the bank, but I didn't think the ducklings were going to get out of the way"  Bill...

This message was edited by billmaxted on Jul-19-05 @ 9:57 AM

Paul
Jul-19-2005 @ 1:55 PM                           Permalink
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First of all, please do not be worried about conflicting with my site, the more choice available, the merrier.

The fantastic thing about the web is the freedom of  expression of one's interests, with anyone able to publish anything, without needing anyone's approval. (within  reasonable overriding legal and moral limits.)

As regards protecting your own work (good point Denise), my understanding of copyright is that you don't have to register it, (unlike patents), and as long as you can prove it to be the original published source and it contains sufficient 'intellectual endeavour', any subsequent plagiarism can be opposed.
(I've gleaned this from web searches, but if I've got it completely wrong, please let me know !)

I think the main effort is going to be ensuring the accuracy, (on an ongoing basis), of the information. e.g, someone needs to canoe or row along the individual channels to know if they are navigable (and by what), or are just drains. ('Secret Water' on a giant scale !)    Smile

craigspc2000
Jul-19-2005 @ 12:19 AM                           Permalink
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Paul, I must say that you have a very honourable view on this and I genuinely appreciate your kind words. Smile

Thanks for the ideas, Bill.  With regards to your point on saving bandwidth, my initial thought was was that it wouldn't work, but then then I actually grasped what you meant and realised that it could save bandwidth when talking about a map that's going to be so big.  I'll have to see how the whole thing pans out and make a decision nearer the time.

The idea of marking out areas of water based on whether they are Navigable, Rowable and Non Navigable is a cracker, as are the other suggestions, Bill.  Some of these are things that I've not seen anywhere before I'd love to find a way of gathering the data when the map is finished.

The issue of keeping things up to date, as you have both mentioned, is going to be a bit of a problem.  I've been able to use fairly recent images to establish what water exists, but I have no way of really telling if they are chained off, reeded over, or even privately owned.  Once I'm done with the basic map, maybe I'll find somebody in an adventurous mood Playful Wink

I've already spent two months to complete a mere half of the northern broads though.  I guess it'll be the same again to finish the rest of the upper broads, and then I'll be looking at your teretory down south. Smile   It really makes me appreciate the immense mass of water that makes up the broads.

Oh heck, it's gone midnight yet again!  I keep telling myself that I'll stop these late nights, but it never works.  Thanks to everyone for their input and I'll keep the forum posted on my progress.

Craig.

This message was edited by craigspc2000 on Jul-19-05 @ 11:20 PM

billmaxted
Jul-20-2005 @ 6:57 AM                           Permalink
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OHHH Scared  I had assumed that you had spent the last two months paddling around from dusk to drawn mapping and that was why you were on your computer so late Playful

If you put bits of the map up with a temporary grid over them I suspect that members here could relate features to a map reference for you.

If you want to be bit of the southern broads for a change I'd try the area round the Ted Ellis trust and rockland broad.

The point about copyright as I understand it is that if you put it in the public domain without marking it, the assumption is that it maybe freely used without further reference to the source

"If you are going to be like that, Darling, I won't let you be the Captain any more!"  Bill...

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