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Posted By Discussion Topic: Give way rules

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petemarr
Aug-06-2007 @ 5:50 PM                           Permalink
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I was speaking to a experienced sailie chap at the weekend and he informed me that if a Yacht is flying a triangular flag at the mast top then he is pleasure sailing and has right of way over power boats. However if he is flying a square flag at mast top then he is racing, and when racing sail has to give way to power.
This is news to me, IS IT CORRECT?
I am sure some experts out there will know the answer.
Answers on the forum please, no postcards.

Pete
STINKIES UNITED

suew
Aug-06-2007 @ 5:59 PM                           Permalink
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Hi Pete, If you see a square burgee they are indeed racing and you do best to stay close to the right side of the river and the sail boats will use you as a moving bank.However the sailies sometimes ask you to move and then you can end up in the middle of the race getting in everyone elses way.we just stay on our station on the right .

cheers take care
Sue W

Stankos
Aug-06-2007 @ 6:02 PM                           Permalink
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Hi Pete,
It is true that the square flag is normally used to indicate that the boat is racing but this in no way changes the collision regulations between power and sailing boats. Cruising sailing boats will normally give way to racing boats as a courtasy but this isn't compulsary but can give rise to harsh words.
Stan

After thought
Large boats often don't carry the square flag due to the lights, aerials and instruments at the top of the mast, in this case they normally lower the ensign while in a race.

This message was edited by Stankos on Aug-6-07 @ 6:08 PM

billmaxted
Aug-06-2007 @ 6:15 PM                           Permalink
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Yes as far as I know just a question of etiquette however an unpowered wherry trading under sail has right of way under a bye-law dating back to the 1850’s over anything afloat.  So if you find Albion or Maud bearing down on you even if you are a polish coaster I’d hog the bank!!

Bill...(The Ancient Mardler)

scuba
Aug-06-2007 @ 6:25 PM                           Permalink
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Yesterday I went across Hickling broad to go up to potter heigham bridge, unfortunately there was a yacthing regatta on. It was like a water version of a kamikaze M25 motorway, I had loads of sailies criscrossing in front and behind at speed and coming at me. One time I had to slam my small boat into reverse to come to a dead halt and to reverse back to avert a small saily slamming into me from side, did seem dangerous that they think they have right of way and can come right at you at speed from side. Then after that down normal section of river had a couple of rag and sticks zigzagging across river from bank to bank. Was hard to judge to when I could pass them, did seem sailies will make you wait along time before signalling to stinkys when to pass them, making you go at 1mph as they zigzag across in front of you.
Saying that I did help out a rag and stick, at slipway I met a guy I was talking to previously at Wroxham public slipway awhile back. He and his friend had trouble getting his sally out onto Hickling Broad as wind was pushing them back into mooring channel, so Better Half held onto a rope and I towed them with my boat till they got onto Hickling Broad.
boat-power  Blush  boat-sail

________
"Accept that some days you’re the pigeon; and some days you’re the statue”. Smile

PizzaLover
Aug-06-2007 @ 9:20 PM                           Permalink
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Yesterday evening, I stood on the passenger deck of the Cowes->Southampton car ferry.

This is Cowes Week - so the harbour in Cowes is heaving, picture any of the Broads hotspots when they are Hot Spots.

Into the harbour flew the fleet of Extreme 40's

http://z.about.com/d/sailing/1/7/8/3/RTI06d_08.jpg

These boats don't have engines - or any other form of propulsion other than the wind.
"Oooooh," I thought, finding my vantage point.
The catamarans tacked, filling the harbour - along with the dozens of other boats which filled it.

My ferry was already some 11 seconds late in departing.
Confidently, knowing this stuff, I knew that the ferry skipper would pause to let the - er - dinghies - er - yachts - sort themselves out.
Several people missed three heartbeats as the horn on the deck yelled "BUUUUUUUUUUUURP."
And the ferry set off into the throng.

OK, so then there was a bit of downright cheating. Each of the 40's was met by a RIB which had an engine nearly as big as my washing machine.
And as the ferry steamed forward, the 40's scattered into the quiet bits.

But there was a no doubt that the ferry skipper felt that he had right of way.



Meanwhile... I have been fortunate enough to crew on a Broads Yacht when racing.
Can I support the requests to yield to anything that is racing.
For the people under that sail, this is not an F1 GP, or the Grand National, or the London Marathon or any football match. It's far more important than them.

This message was edited by PizzaLover on Aug-8-07 @ 6:55 AM

dannyboy
Aug-06-2007 @ 9:52 PM                           Permalink
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Scuba,

even as a saily, I agree that crossing the racing lines of the Hickling club can be a nightmare... for a start, their course usually extends way up the Broad and right across to the houseboats, so to keep clear you would have to not bother heading for the Staithe at all. We passed through last week and managed to keep out of the way, but in truth, most of the dinghies (which were much quicker than us) were probably avoiding us anyway. One dear lady called out 'We are in a race!!' in tones that made us feel we ought to have mudweighted against the reeds until it was all over... We knew, of course, but there was no way we could keep out of the way of thirty or forty little racing dinghies. So we just carefully tacked our way up the channel.  

IMHO, I think at busy times of day (this was a Sunday lunchtime) they would do well to plot their racing course largely outside the channel at least... or accept the limitations and the necessity to give way themselves, more than they might like to if they are competitive! They seemed to be racing right across the channel at right angles and then straight down it to the houseboats! We avoided any close contact, but as there were so many dinghies, we were tacking and concerned not to stray too far from the channel, our own movements were limited.

As for giving way to sailing boats, it is always best to ensure you pass the stern of the yacht, not the bows - in other words, wait for the tack (this works whether you are going in the same direction or if they are coming towards you) and then pass (quickly please to avoid having to do it twice!!) behind as the yacht moves away from the bank - and you. If they are heading towards the side of your boat, they would be silly and rude not to tack off!  

I always do signal to other boats, but it is evidently not always clear to the cruiser driver whether I mean 'this is what I am about to do', or 'this is what I would like you to do'! I always mean, 'this is what I want you to do' but it seems (from bitter experience) that this is not always the message received!!

Danny

'non semper erit aestas'

This message was edited by dannyboy on Aug-6-07 @ 9:54 PM

B17
Aug-06-2007 @ 10:59 PM                           Permalink
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Bill,

In My experience Polish Coasters have right of way over everything.

Including Gas Platforms Evil Grin  


PL,

Although there are almost 40 colregs there are only 3 you need worry about.

and by far the most important is

1) Might is Right Smile  Evil Grin


I will tell you the other 2 over a pint or 2 some day

Rod

You mean the other Starboard then...

pks1702
Aug-06-2007 @ 11:27 PM                           Permalink
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Might is right

Regards

Perry

It is not wealth or ancestry,
but honourable conduct and a noble disposition,
that maketh men great


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andrewleighcook
Aug-07-2007 @ 4:16 PM                           Permalink
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Hi all Danny Boy is absolutely right about Cruisers given way and to go behind the Sailing Boat as soon as you can as they Tack they way over the other side as all depends on the Wind & Tide and what part of the River they are on i.e. the River Ant is a bit Narrow and tricky. I have got the R.Y.A Certificate as I should know what to do but you will get the odd twit on a Hired Cruiser trying to over take a Cruiser that cannot pass a Sailing Boat as I've see this happen a few times in the past but there should be a memo in the Hirer's Hand Book for the Do's and Dont's that's all I've got to say on this subject.
Andrew.

A L Cook  

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