Topic: EBERSPACHER


Ellaboat    -- Jan-6-2006 @ 1:19 PM
  Buying Secondhand?
You may have seen the many D1LC Compact heaters for sale on Ebay.
Having just bought and fitted one of the above, I put it to test during the recent bitterly cold weather and am well pleased with the results.
The purpose of this post is to pass on any technical information that I painstakingly gleaned prior to installation (plus safety issues re siting) for the benefit of other like minded (and small pocketed) boat owners.
Most of the units on Ebay are ex BT or similar vehicles and lack one wire in the cable loom (used for connection of a room/cabin thermostat). Instead the heater internally monitors the temperature of the incoming fresh air and adjusts it's output depending on this temp. and the target temp. as set on the control device. This is not a major problem, but if you do not want to recycle the cabin air and want better control over the heater then a remote cabin temperature sensor is required. I will soon be fitting a separate temperature sensor and can then report on success or otherwise.
If you have any questions, I will pass on any relevant information that I have gleaned.
Please be patient if you don't receive an instant response.


E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-12-2006 @ 10:36 AM
  Well I've fitted the remote (cabin) temperature sensor and it works perfectly.
The heater looks for, and recognises, that a remote sensor is fitted during the automatic diagnostics on startup. It then uses this sensor in preference to the internal sensor during operation.
I disconnected the remote sensor (with the heater operating) to see results and sure enough the heater generated a fault code of F60 (open circuit temperature sensor).
Note that you cannot switch over to the remote sensor with the heater running - it will simply ignore it.
Another improvement that you can make to one of these ex BT heaters is to replace the standard rheostat control with a 7 day timer - these are selling on ebay for around 40 Pounds Sterling. The only slight niggle is that the timers currently on ebay are the German version (so the 2 letters that represent the day of the week are abbreviated German - I CAN'T SPEAK GERMAN - but I'm learning Smile
In time I'll get round to posting info re connections for any other DIYers out there.
There are of course safety issues to consider and anyone uneasy about self-fit would be better going to an authorised dealer.

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-12-2006 @ 5:06 PM
  Am trying to gauge whether this subject is proving of interest - need feedback!!
Has anybody else any relevant technical info to share.

E/boat Steve


Deano    -- Jan-12-2006 @ 7:48 PM
  Please keep going.....
... I'm interested in how you did the inlet and
exhaust.


fendoff    -- Jan-12-2006 @ 10:47 PM
  Hi
Well I don't have a Eberspacher but I have been intrigued by what you have achieved. Definitely food for thought. A couple of pictures of the installation would be great.

fendoff


Torty    -- Jan-12-2006 @ 11:22 PM
  Please press on. Our Eberspacher heats a water jacket that then pumps round four radiators and the calorifier. But I am interested to learn from your experience. We had a Webasto hot air system on our last boat and could not get on with it. So far we love the Eberspacher - apart from when the glow plug failed last Boxing Day (2004). Luckily we have 240v power and could head for a shorepower pylon and get the blow fire going. Now I always keep a spare on the boat. Haven't had it long so I don't have a feel for the likely life of a glow plug.

Phil


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 12:46 AM
  Thanks for feedback everyone.
I did write a longish reply earlier, but lost it when I clicked on "reply to message."
Richard help - where did it go??

E/boat Steve


Richard    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 1:04 AM
  Sorry Steve, only slightly my fault. Basically the system "times out" your session after about 2 hours of inactivity. For long posts I tend to do them in notepad or word and then cut and paste.


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 1:38 AM
  Thanks for info Richard. It'll teach me to finish it in one go and not keep walking away (or alternatively use notepad as you suggest)...

Here goes with retype

There are 2 inlets to provide for:-
1) Combustion air
2) Fresh air for heating and distribution to cabins

For the combustion air I bought an Eberspacher silenced air intake pipe. (John at Eber-Basto advised me that this makes the heater quieter in operation). The heater takes combustion air from the engine compartment (as does the main engine).
This is the black pipe to the left of the copper fuel inlet pipe.

For fresh air I fitted an intake on the cockpit starboard panelling. The 60mm air ducting runs down between the panelling and the outer hull then across the rear of the engine compartment (entering the heater on the left of the picture). As we have a canvas canopy, this is only one step away from taking air from outside the boat.
Siting of this intake is crucial for a safe installation - any noxious fumes entering here will be distributed around the entire boat.
We have a centre cockpit and rarely smell any fumes but if you have an aft cockpit and transom exhaust, NEVER site your intake low down in the aft well.
Given the effects of the low pressure area created behind a moving boat, it hardly seems necessary to make this point but even experienced Ebby dealers have been caught out by this (there's an MAIB case file on this very subject).

For the exhaust outlet on a fibreglass hull you will need an air-cooled (double skinned) hull fitting. Eberspacher would charge you £120+ for this, but you can usually buy one on Ebay for about £48 (they are on special at the moment for £36). Watch out for cheap Chinese imitations. The genuine fittings (I believe) all have 4 fixing holes. They also angle the exhaust down steeply to help avoid ingress of water.
The heater should be fitted above the level of the hull exhaust outlet, but if you cannot achieve that (which I couldn't), then fit the hull outlet no higher than the level of the exhaust outlet on the bottom of the heater. The two are connected by 24mm (inside diameter)stainless exhaust tubing - use the genuine Eberspacher tube.

Continued in next post..


E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Jan-23-06 @ 9:26 AM


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 2:01 AM
  Remember to also fit an insulating sock on exhaust tubing to avoid potential nasty burns and fall foul of BSS. (Exhaust with sock is white pipe in picture).

Fuel tubing must be copper pipe for BSS compliance.

Fuel pump needs to be angled up at least 15 degrees for correct operation (see picture). Ideally, the fuel line should progressively climb from the tank to the heater with no dips.

Also I will need to replace those un-insulated crimp terminals - they are another potential BSS failure.

This fitting will continue to evolve. I still have not properly supported the cabin air ducting and rogue untidy wires that you may notice in the pictures offend my eyes every time I lift the floor panels.

1st of 6 pictures attached

E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Jan-23-06 @ 9:21 AM


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 2:02 AM
  pic 2 of 6

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 2:06 AM
  pic 3 of 6

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 2:07 AM
  pic 4 of 6

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 2:08 AM
  pic 5 of 6

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 2:09 AM
  pic 6 of 6

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 9:52 AM
  If you want one of these and are strapped for cash, get on to Boulters QUICK.
They bought a job lot from BT and only have a few left at incredibly low prices - I already had mine when Sonny told me that he had them.
He also has a chap that installs if you don't fancy doing it yourself.

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 1:05 PM
  Want a manual?

Seen them for sale on Ebay?

Go here and download it for free:-
http://www.espar.com/htm/tecmans.htm

E/boat Steve


billmaxted    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 1:39 PM
  Are Boutlers now approved agents for Eberspacher because since Bristers folded the only local agent were Panks, who only know about lorries, which is why few yards will touch them. Not being unkind but you are in danager of heading members towards cowboys  Frown

'There's nothing virtual about this you silly Twit we really are aground whatever your GPS says!'  Bill...


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 3:05 PM
  Thanks Bill,

Good point.

I personally would only want to buy the heater itself.

I do not know who it is that fits the heaters for Boulters, but they are definitely not authorised dealers themselves.

Eberspacher also told me that they are aware of "Eber-Basto" but do not know where he came from or where he gets his supplies of Eberspacher parts.

Bill also told me privately that a rubber joint in one of my pictures would fail BSS inspection (not 30 minute fireproof).

This is just the sort of feedback that I need - and welcome.

I did state that copper fuel tubing was required for BSS compliance and intended to follow up on this when I had my joints looked at by a BSS inspector.
(They are only too happy to give advice prior to inspection).
HMMM who should I ask - Boulters are BSS inspectors.

There are currently 2 rubber joints in my fuel feed:-
one at the unpressurised input to the fuel pump and the second that I was was more concerned about at the fuel inlet on the heater.

Keep any sage advice coming - the end result can only be of advantage to all!

Incidentally, I put the question to Eberspacher re using Panks for a marine installation and they recommended them.
So it just goes to show that local knowledge wins through at the end of the day.
If in doubt ask a LOCAL boatyard!

E/boat Steve


finny    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 3:11 PM
  enjoyed the read steve ,but to anyone thinking of buying a "ex"system i think that you should make sure its 12 volt not 24 volt as any thing that comes off alorry will usually be 24 volt.
second ,i would not purchase a unit without a warrenty.
the company i work for use Eberspacher and Wabasto on our waggons and apart from the fact it costs us around £1200 to fit them,they dont fit as a optional extra thing ,they work there guts out ,in our case around the clock bare that in mind.
industry runs on white diesel iam not sure but you should make sure it can run on red diesel there is a difference,what sounds cheap could turn out expensive

finny


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 3:32 PM
  Thanks Finny,

The heaters that I am referring to are mostly ex BT vans or ambulances and all 12 volt.
Mine looked almost brand new EXTERNALLY and does not smoke at all at any time.
If it lasts 2 winters I'll be happy.

The 24 volt versions sell much slower on ebay and do not achieve the same price as 12 volt units.

All I previously knew on fuel is that Bio-diesel is not recommended. I know nothing on this subject but seem to remember something about it being less pure and clogging the unit up??

Anyway, I must get off this addictive forum and finally do some work.



E/boat Steve


finny    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 10:24 PM
  hi steve,i can remembering reading in a questions and answer thing in the waterways mag,aboat owner had ,had a unit fitted and it would'nt work properly .the mag got the manufacturer involved,it found that it was set on a different spec as it had been set up to operate on white .as red deisel had less octane.which thinking about it now ,goes back to a recent thread were Dr deisel informed us about the possible differece between running on white rather than red,maybe something to keep an eye on

finny


Ellaboat    -- Jan-13-2006 @ 11:04 PM
  Hi finny,
Yes thanks for that.
All I can say is that our unit seems to be working fine with no ill effects evident.
During the recent very cold snap it was kept on all day and only shut down when we went to bed.
I won't leave it on when we are asleep however, even after I have replaced the rubber fuel joints mentioned earlier.
I know various auto shutdown safeguards are built into the design of these heaters (and very efficient they are too) but relying on them whilst I am unconscious in my bunk requires a leap of faith that I am not prepared to make.

Having it start up automatically about 15 minutes before I fall out of my bunk in the morning is sheer luxury though.






E/boat Steve


Cattleya    -- Jan-17-2006 @ 9:33 AM
  That looks very much like a JGM Madeira 27, which is the boat I own (mine is on the River Great Ouse).

I have been thinking of getting an Eberspacher for mine to replace the gas heaters. At the boat show I was quoted £1000 for the unit and £450 for fitting. I don't mind buying the unit new, but the fitting seems a little steep!

How did you connect the fuel line to the tank?
How have you routed the warm air pipes to both cabins?
Could you have also put an outlet into the cockpit?

I also have lots of questions about the Madeira.

This message was edited by Cattleya on Jan-17-06 @ 9:38 AM


Ellaboat    -- Jan-17-2006 @ 10:42 AM
  Hi Cattleya,
I answered your PM about Madeira's before seeing your post here.

The fuel is taken from the main diesel tank using an Eberspacher metal stand pipe (you can buy these on Ebay).
I have cut the length to prevent the heater from using any more fuel when the tank is down to one quarter full.
At present I have no fuel filter in the line. This is something that I am considering but all I have seen so far is PLASTIC cased filters for the 2mm i/d tubing (I'm sure that would be another BSS failure point, if fitted). I will post a picture of the tank take-off after I next visit the boat.

CABIN OUTLETS:-
I have fitted 3 (forward saloon / cockpit / aft cabin).
This really is the absolute maximum number if you are going to have them all open at the same time.
In the recent very cold snap, I just had the cockpit one open and it was bliss (No more need for hot water bottle laying on feet to prevent toe freeze up while at helm, and outlet is on opposite side to helm!)
In warmer conditions we need 1 outlet fully open and a second at least slightly open to prevent overheat shut down after about 1 hrs operation - the ducting used over the years has slowly been reduced in size (remember the old Webasto's that used massive ducting).
I think that it has now reached it's smallest size to allow enough air through the heater. Maybe siting the heater in the engine compartment is also a factor here, but it is a minor consideration to remember cracking open a 2nd outlet slightly.

continued in next post..

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-17-2006 @ 11:07 AM
  continued...

For Madeira owners:-

Outlet in cockpit is under seat on port side and very easy to feed ducting to.

Outlet in aft cabin is shown in previous pic.
Ducting runs under port bunk inboard at top (I will be boxing this in under the bunk and surrounding the duct in glassfibre insulation - inside the boxed section). This takes up a small amount of storage space but at the very top and out of sight. Again ducting easy to run through engine compartment bulkhead under the heater, high enough to clear the exhaust pipe (again see previous pic.)

In Forward Saloon it would be easy to lay ducting behind units on port side and fit outlet under port side seating. Eberspacher advise to prevent air outlet from being very close to legs - can be quite hot.
We opted to have under stairs. This is fine in the cabin, but I am still not happy with partial obstruction to starter battery access. Clipping duct round to this location also tricky - ours only temporary supported at present.


E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-17-2006 @ 11:17 AM
  Eberspacher suppy insulating jackets that you can put over your ducting.
I believe they call it "Maxi-Therm."

It comes in lengths of approx. 0.75 metres and in 2 types:-

One is a flat sheet with clips along the edge that you simply wrap around the duct and clip together.

The other is is tube form and slides onto the ducting.

cost about £9 something per length

E/boat Steve


billmaxted    -- Jan-17-2006 @ 1:39 PM
  On all such instalations one vent should be incapable of being closed (often the one in the Saloon) that way you cannot overheat the system

'There's nothing virtual about this you silly Twit we really are aground whatever your GPS says!'  Bill...


Ellaboat    -- Jan-17-2006 @ 3:15 PM
  If we were ever to sell the boat, I would fit the spare non closable vent that we have on board, in the main saloon.
As it is, we prefer the flexibility that the current set up provides - it allows for a strong blast in the cockpit during very severe winter conditions.
Don't know whether we may be forced to do this permanently (under BSS requirements).

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-18-2006 @ 10:57 AM
  If anyone does buy one of these 2nd hand heaters, send me a PM with the model number on the casing (25 #### ## ## ##) and I can give some useful info.

One thing to note is that the ex BT van units come with a separate 1 hour timer which can be discarded BUT.....

CERTAIN VERSIONS of the "D1LC compact" require an external relay in circuit (to take the current supplied to the glow plug on start up and fuel pump during operation).
Without it, the current would be routed through the contacts on the control device (standard rheostat or 7 day timer etc.)and cause damage.
The 1 hour timer includes this relay.
Later versions do not route the heavy current via the user's control device and therefore do not need to retain a relay in circuit if you remove the timer.

My heater DOES NOT need the external relay and is Cat. No. :-

25 1976 05 00 00

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-18-2006 @ 11:34 AM
  Standard Rheostat (rotary knob) Controller

Some people are under the wrong impression that the rotary temperature selector is just like a household thermostat (which includes the temperature sensor and selector dial for desired temp.) - this is simply not the case.
Variations on temperature sensor are described elsewhere (see earlier page).
All that the rheostat includes is a TARGET temperature adjustment which is simply a variable resistor (or rheostat in old money), a heater on/off switch and a couple of LED's.
The 7 day timer is a programmable on/off switch with the additonal advantage of fault code readout (AND the ability to reset the heater fault history BUT READ ON).

Note that certain faults will disable the heater if they occur several times in a row - this is a safety feature.
Although resetting the history will re-enable the heater, it should not be carried out without attending to the cause of the original fault (which may require a service visit).
Fault code lists are available and therefore you are in no doubt as what will have triggered heater shutdown (or lockout).

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-18-2006 @ 12:03 PM
  Noise during operation:-

The heater itself just produces a reassuring rumble which falls away to almost nothing when the target temperature is reached.
The fuel pump is a solenoid which pulls in when power is applied and releases when power is removed, so the heater gives out pulses of 12 volts to operate the pump and the pump delivers squirts of fuel.
On "boost" (usually at first switch on) the ticking rate is quite fast which quickly reverts to "high" eventually dropping to "medium" or "low." The heater continues to automatically switch as necessary between these speeds / heat outputs.
A new fuel pump clamp has been introduced by Eberspacher, (made entirely of rubber, except for a metal insert for the securing screw to pass through)- this is to combat ticking from being transmitted through the entire boat.
One reason that I had hoped to be allowed to retain rubber joints is to not re-establish this path.

Currently though, I find it useful to hear the ticking so that I know what power level the heater is on, and hear it slow down as target temp. is reached.
Just boiling a kettle will easily drown out the ticking in the saloon.

The noisiest thing in my opinion, is the fresh air intake which I would not like to have down in the saloon with us. It's much better where it is in the cockpit.

E/boat Steve


Antares_9    -- Feb-2-2006 @ 12:36 PM
  Steve,

There is a way to retain rubber tubing each side of the dosing pump (hence reducing the noise) and still comply with BSS.

A small aluminum project case and 2 small calor gas bulkhead fittings are needed. Simply mount the pump in the case with the rubbers connected to the gas fittings and then you can use compression fitting for your copper on the outside of the project case. a small hole sealed by silicone for the electrics and you're done. This is in fact how Webasto marine installation kits get over this issue.

David

2006 Antares serie 9 "Kingfisher"


Ellaboat    -- Feb-2-2006 @ 2:02 PM
  Thanks David,

I may look at this.

For the electrics:-
I have plenty of "pukka" metal cable glands.

For the fuel:-
I bought the fuel piping and metal "in-line" joints that I have used so far as a kit, so I need to check where I can buy individual bulkhead fittings.
I have not come across copper tubing this small before.

Another minor problem in replacing the rubber fitting at the fuel inlet pipe on the heater itself is that the inlet pipe has a "bulbous" end (OK for rubber pipe to pass over, but I suppose this will have to be cut off to allow the fitting of a metal joint).


E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Feb-2-06 @ 2:06 PM


Antares_9    -- Feb-2-2006 @ 4:05 PM
  Here is a picture of the set up.

2006 Antares serie 9 "Kingfisher"


parahandy    -- Feb-2-2006 @ 8:45 PM
  great info steve
have you any idea what the drain on the battery is i have heard rumours that its quite high. hope not as i need to fit one. just to keep her indoors warm

jim

back to work already your'e joking


Ellaboat    -- Feb-2-2006 @ 11:33 PM
  Thanks for the picture David (Antares).

Hi Parahandy,
Haven't seen you here before - wouldn't be based anywhere near Crinan Canal would you?

Power consumption of D1LC Compact at 12 volts:-

START UP:-
250 watts (21 amps)
FOR A FEW SECONDS ONLY during start up cycle

BOOST (after start up):-
30 watts (2.5 amps)
For a few minutes only

HIGH:-
22 watts (1.84 amps)
In very cold conditions could be for several hours

MEDIUM:-
10 watts (0.84 amps)
When approaching desired temp

LOW:-
8 watts (0.67 amps)
At desired temp

If temperature continues to climb past desired temp. when heater is running on low it will switch itself off (this is an exceptional circumstance and will happen very rarely).

Ella is 27 ft which is about the biggest size of vessel that the D1LC can heat.
Considering the "cold" conditions that we tested this in, it coped well but spent a long time on "high".

The next higher output heater would not be worked quite as hard in winter.

See following link for what I mean by cold conditions Evil Grin :-

http://www.the-norfolk-broads.co.uk/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=23&Topic=3107



E/boat Steve


Cattleya    -- Feb-3-2006 @ 4:58 PM
  What batteries arrangement do you have on your boat? I have 2 batteries, one for the engine and one for everything else. I'm wondering how these would stand up to the power requirements of the heater. I would run it from the domestic battery which is located right next to where I would mount the heater.


parahandy    -- Feb-3-2006 @ 5:43 PM
  hi steve
the reason you havn't seen me on the site before is it's only my second day as a member.

and i must admit its the best one, friendly members giving others lots of help.

thanks for the info on current flow that not bad at all.
i am not at crinon i am moored up at stalahm


back to work already your'e joking


Ellaboat    -- Feb-3-2006 @ 6:00 PM
  Hi Simon (Cattleya),

I appear to have the same setup as you:-

1 x 110 amp/hr starter battery for the main engine

1 x 110 amp/hr leisure (deep cycle) battery for domestics and the eberspacher.

As long as the domestic battery receives a decent charge during the day and is in good condition, I expect that it will cope with our domestic loads overnight.
(This is no more scientific than a personal opinion, as I haven't carried out any proper duty cycle calculations for each load on the domestic circuit).
I can't even state that ours coped during our Winter holiday aboard, as our domestic battery is partly sulphated up (in need of replacement) and we had a temporary second battery paralleled across it.

As stated previously, we don't run the eberspacher after going to bed at night.
Actually, we find the biggest impact on battery life (before recharging needed) is that nasty NOISY power hungry Engel 12 volt fridge that demands power on and off 24 hrs a day.

We are also looking at possible replacement of the old filament lamp deckhead lights with much more efficient LED units. Not sure that I would want to lose the old lamps entirely - they give a much warmer light than fluorescent tubes or blue LED's.

I wonder, has any of this helped you Question

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Feb-3-2006 @ 7:07 PM
  Hi Parahandy,

Welcome to the forum.

You're boat should be named "Vital Spark" and steam powered...
Can't remember when that programme was aired, but it was all filmed in Scotland (Caledonian Canal/Crinan Canal? / Oban?) and the skippers name was parahandy.

I last spotted the old steam "puffer," Vital Spark at the end of Crinan Canal.



E/boat Steve


parahandy    -- Feb-3-2006 @ 8:20 PM
  i used to watch the vital spark with my mum many eons ago brilliant prog and yes i agree the boat should have been named vital spark but you try telling the wife & kids that. verily i ended up with tinkerbelle  Blush
never mind the old girl(the boat not missus)is a dc30
which i have been bringing up to date for 2years & she has just passed the bsc.
if anyone needs the name of a bloke to do their bsc give me a shout he only charges £60 & no retest which makes a big difference
jim

back to work already your'e joking


seventh-heaven    -- Feb-6-2006 @ 5:04 PM
  Steve,

Early on in the thread you talk about the D1LC and an F60 fault. Does this imply that you have a fault code reader and reset box?

I have fitted a D1LC to my Easticks 28 "Annie". The first few times I ran the heater it started fine but shut down after a couple of minutes. Now it won't start and I suspect that I was a bit optomistic with the severity of the  curve on the output hose, and as a result it has locked itself out on "overtemp". However everything I have read so far says that I need a reset box to reset that fault.

Do you have access to one of the reset boxes?

Regards

Andy.

This message was edited by seventh-heaven on Feb-6-06 @ 10:18 PM


Ellaboat    -- Feb-8-2006 @ 9:00 PM
  Hi Andy,

Just got back from Falmouth - needed to earn some money!
I will send you a PM with more details but your main question was answered on page 2 in my post dated Jan 18th.
Wife currently whistling as tea is ready - expect a PM later tonight.

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Feb-19-2006 @ 11:07 AM
  I thought that I might as well put this out there for everyone to see.

THIS IS THE WIRING WHEN REPLACING THE STANDARD RHEOSTAT CONTROL WITH A 7 DAY TIMER on a D1LC Compact.
  
The 7 day timer (for AIR heaters ##) - has 12 pins as follows:-

1  =  Illumination
(not necessary - display backlighting is on during operation)

2  =  Switch On signal to heater
(goes direct to pin 14 on heater control module on our version of D1LC compact)- see #

3  =  Connection for OUTSIDE temperature sensor
(NOT for a remote internal sensor)

4  =  TRS (link this to -ve at pin 12)
TRS only used on petrol tankers etc. - link disables this feature.

5  =  2nd connection for OUTSIDE temperature sensor

6  =  Temperature target value
(same as pin 2 on rheostat control - goes to heater control module pin 7)

7  =  Remote on/off
(not normally used - momentary contact to -ve will switch heater on / off)

8  =  Diagnostics
(receives fault codes from heater control module pin 4)

9  =  Sensor ref
(same as pin 1 on rheostat control - goes to heater control module pin 13)

10 = Ignition (link this to pin 11)
(note that if link to +ve at pin 11 is not fitted, heater will run for 2 hrs only and shut down)

11 = 12 volts +ve supply

12 = 12 volts -ve supply


If you have a troubleshooting guide - note that the reference to ignition "terminal 15" on page 6 (switched +ve)relates to contacts on a vehicle ignition switch.

# Some heaters require a relay in circuit to carry high current for glow plug etc. - see earlier in thread.

## Above refers to 7 day timers with part nos:-

English - 22 1000 30 40 00
German  - 22 1000 30 38 00



E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Feb-19-06 @ 11:20 AM


expilot    -- Feb-19-2006 @ 11:48 PM
  My first boat, "Grey Goose" was originally fitted with gas heaters.  They produced gallons of condensation and were quickly replaced by a 3.5kw Webasto.  Like many of the posters hetre I was worried about battery consumption.  The problem was solved by installing a magic black box for controlling the alternator's charging ability.  I think it was called a TWC.  I already had two heavy duty domestic batteries.  These I kept but added a smaller (and much cheaper) car battery used solely foe engine starting.  The TWC fed the charge to this battery first before topping up the heavy duty batteries.  Interestingly the TWC was also a very efficient diagnostic tool.  The readings suggested a complete upgrading of the wiring - which I did.  The heater was couple to a programmable controller which meant that I could leave the heater on a frostat setting permanently when the boat was unused.  I could also leave the boat in the morning and set the heating to come on a half hour befdore my return.  The biggest benefit from my point of view was that I could also adjust the hysteresis.  I had mine set so that the difference between the heating being on or off was just 0.5 degrees Celsius.  I could leave salt and sugar out in the boat and they were never once damp.

"There are old pilots.  There are bold pilots............."


Ellaboat    -- Feb-21-2006 @ 1:02 PM
  Points worth noting (most of which are obvious when you give it any thought):-

1) Volume of air leaving each cabin outlet reduces according to how many outlets are open. It would be impractical to fit any more than 3 outlets and expect to have them all open at the same time.
In fact, 3 is pushing the limits with a D1LC Compact.

2) Air ducting should be kept as short as possible, and adding insulation sleeving to avoid heat loss is worth considering. Our heater coped well when we were on the boat and using the engine every day (much of our ducting and the heater itself are in the engine compartment and therefore warmed by the engine), but when I visited yesterday and ran up the Ebby on a totally cold boat it took a full hour to lift the main saloon temperature 4 degrees C.
This was deliberately with 2 outlets open (1 only in the main saloon) to see how the heater coped when heating more than one cabin in "dead ship" conditions.
  
3) As I mentioned before, if you like to be warm as toast under all conditions, then you would be better off fitting a higher output heater on a boat longer than say 25 ft.

The above test was the harshest yet of this heaters abilities. We will only see conditions like this in the marina, where I can simply switch on a 240 volt mains fan heater instead.


E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Feb-21-06 @ 7:22 PM


Ellaboat    -- Feb-21-2006 @ 7:47 PM
  Unless I have misunderstood the reference to the hysteresis setting, I would guess that the Webasto that expilot is talking about was one of the older models.
The newer Eberspachers, which includes the D1LC Compact (and I guess also the newer Webasto's) do not switch on and off to maintain a temperature as I believe they used to. Instead, they automatically vary the heat output and blower speed - the only time that they would actually switch off is when they are on the lowest heat output and the temperature is still continuing to rise.
This new approach avoids the repeated high current consumption during restart (to power the start up glow plug).

E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Feb-21-06 @ 7:54 PM


Ellaboat    -- Apr-2-2006 @ 10:03 AM
  Have found a picture of the cabin temperature sensor referred to earlier in thread...

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Apr-2-2006 @ 10:13 AM
  also pic of the 7 day timer in situ (sorry about awful focus)

E/boat Steve


VetChugger    -- Apr-23-2006 @ 12:50 PM
  It was suggested to a mate of mine that there is an Eberspacher dealer in Lowestoft who also has a website. Anyone any idea as to who this might be?

Trevor


billmaxted    -- Apr-23-2006 @ 12:57 PM
  I have found out that Moonfleet now will do servicing on these. Apart from Panks so far as I can tell there are no other proper agents. Beware fitting automotive units in boats they will not stand up to the high humidity, might seem cheaper but might cost you in the long term.

Bill...


gingaboy    -- Apr-23-2006 @ 8:43 PM
    TREVOR  EBER-BASTO are allways advertising on E BAY just type   EBERSPACHER  in the search and you will find them

Regards Roy


Antares_9    -- Apr-23-2006 @ 9:39 PM
  There is actually no difference at all in either Ebo or Webasto furnaces sold for marine usage, the differences are in the arrangement of exhausts and in Webasto, the fuel pump is enclosed in the later marine versions as a nod towards having no exposed nitrile tubing fuel pipes for BSS. As with most things used for leisure marine purposes thier biggest enemy is infrequent use.

MMM, by the simple process of posting enough rubbish it seems I now "Know my stuff", bit like a PHD, enough pages and it's yours (in the absence of an emoicon, please assume tounge in cheek)


expilot    -- Apr-24-2006 @ 8:34 AM
  Seath Instruments are/were? agents for Webasto and are situated in Oulton.

"There are old pilots.  There are bold pilots............."


Ellaboat    -- Nov-12-2006 @ 11:17 PM
  Nearly one year on and going strong.
It's getting to that time of year when these devices really earn their keep, so maybe a seasonal update is in order.
I'll find time in the next few days to add the info on electrical interconnections during installation.



E/boat Steve


Antares_9    -- Nov-13-2006 @ 8:17 AM
  We had a bit of a leak on the flybridge drain this weekend which fried the electronic timer and rheostat control, thank goodness we were in the marina and were able to use the shore power. Fortunately it is only the timer and it seems to have left the control board in the heater undamaged.

update on cat logic: "Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum" Rene Des Cat


Bigalp    -- Nov-15-2006 @ 6:54 PM
  I have recently bought a Eberspacher D4 airtronic. I have now completed the installation and after ensuring the batteries are fully charged switched it on, the fuel pump makes the usual banging noise and goes through the start uo cycle but fails to fire up. On investigation no fuel is getting up to the heater. I used the original pick up used by the original heater, this is a 1/4 inch bore and I reduced it down to the required size just before the pump.
Has anyone any ideas how to get the fuel up?

Regards

Alan


roya    -- Nov-15-2006 @ 7:20 PM
  Alan welcome to the site mate.
Im sure some one will be able to help you.

roya

A Day without a smile is a wasted day


Antares_9    -- Nov-15-2006 @ 8:42 PM
  Alan, first make sure the pipe is clear, blow it back with compressed air from an air horn refill if you have no access to a compressor. These pumps are very sensitive to distance from the tank and don’t like sucking but will pump well upstream so fit it within 1m and as close as possible to tank level. You can make the pump work for its first “bleed” by connecting to the battery with a cheap on off switch & just keep flicking the switch until you get fuel at the furnace. In case you didn't know the pumps are of simple solenoid design and not polarity dependant.

update on cat logic: "Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum" Rene Des Cat


Ellaboat    -- Nov-15-2006 @ 8:45 PM
  Alan,
The problem is the quarter inch bore section of pipe.
The pump just can't cope with the amount of air in this section.
You could try purging the air from this pipe to initially get the heater up and running (but if fuel manages to drain back out of this wide section between uses of the heater you will be back in the same situation again).

To see if the pump can pull fuel through the quarter inch section you can manually operate and bleed the pump as follows:-
Disconnect both electrical connectors from the pump and isolate them.
Make a "permanent" connection to battery negative from one pump contact.
Connect another cable to battery positive (preferrably with a fuse in line) and dab this onto the other pump connection to operate the pump.
(One dab = one squirt of fuel).
Then with the piping removed from the output side of the pump, put your finger over the hole to prevent air re-entering the pump.
Dab contact as many times as necessary to purge the air from the pipe and have squirts of fuel leaving the pump.
Re-assemble and reconnect as usual.

GOOD LUCK


E/boat Steve


p.s. Hello David - It seems that we were both replying at the same time Smile

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Nov-15-06 @ 8:46 PM


Antares_9    -- Nov-15-2006 @ 8:47 PM
  Oops, how rude of me, welcome to the site Alan.

update on cat logic: "Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum" Rene Des Cat


Ellaboat    -- Nov-15-2006 @ 9:00 PM
  Lack of observation here also.
A big welcome from this neck of the woods too, Alan.


Another wrong observation:-
I thought that this thread had finally run it's course and I was just talking to myself. Smile

E/boat Steve


Antares_9    -- Nov-15-2006 @ 10:35 PM
  Hi Steve, you didn't notice me looking over your shoulder and copying what you were writing then. Smile

update on cat logic: "Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum" Rene Des Cat


Ellaboat    -- Nov-15-2006 @ 10:44 PM
  LOLS

Like minds think alike (or something like that).

E/boat Steve


Antares_9    -- Nov-16-2006 @ 1:42 PM
  Came across an interesting fault a few weeks ago that is worth remembering, the copper supply pipe had been cut with a hacksaw instead of a proper mini tube cutter. It had sliced a small flap from the wall of the rubber joining piece because of the sharp edge, made a lovely one way valve and prevented fuel reaching the furnace but almost impossible to spot when inspecting the lines.

update on cat logic: "Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum" Rene Des Cat


lamplighter    -- Nov-25-2006 @ 9:55 AM
  Hi Everyone.
I have been following the discussions and hope someone can answer a couple of questions

I have a D3LC on my boat that has been working fine
Now it runs for about an hour and switches off with the green light on the stat flashing any ideas?

I have bought a timer module which I hope will give me fault codes but am unsure of the connections and if I need the relay as indicated I cant find any reference to my heater number 25 1822 01

Hoping someone can help

Cheers

Paul


roya    -- Nov-25-2006 @ 11:20 AM
  Welcome to the site Mate. Smile

roya

A Day without a smile is a wasted day


Jimbo    -- Nov-25-2006 @ 3:04 PM
  Lamplighter... I Have a 5kw Webasto on my boat and if that ever stops it is down to battery voltage dropping too low. Indicated firstly by a rapid flashing then 3 long flashes of the green control light. Hope this helps


lamplighter    -- Nov-25-2006 @ 4:30 PM
  Hi Jimbo thanks for the reply, I am pretty sure its not voltage related as I am connected to the mains

The unit will not fire up at all now and still shows flashing green light which again points to an overheat ( 3 times and a reset)

I have now managed to connect up the 7 day timer which gives fault diagnoses and that indicates an overheat, I suspect the sensor has failed.

The paperwork I have says I can reset it using the timer but it doesnt say how. I dread to think how much the dealer wants to do it, I can replace the sensor myself

If anyone knows how to reset using the timer I would be extremely grateful

Cheers
Paul


Ellaboat    -- Nov-25-2006 @ 8:36 PM
  Hi Paul,

Your heater is an older version of the "D3LC Universal 12 volt"

The full model number is 25 1822 05 00 00

For reference, the number that you quoted is for the plastic outer shell, bottom section
(In full = 25 1822 01 01 00)

You can download a technical manual for a D3LCc here:-

http://www.espar.com/pdfs/D3LCc.pdf

The document above relates to a later version, but just check that your wiring loom and wire destinations are the same as shown.
Then the following info will be correct.

Re using relay contacts to carry the current for the glow plug and fuel pump:-
This is only required on early models that routed power for these devices through the "heater switch on" line (yellow wire from the 7 day timer, pin 2).
To check your heater's requirements, connect and hold a 20 amp ammeter between heater pin 5 (battery +ve) and heater pin 14.
This will run up the heater.
As long as it is not calling for short bursts of high (say 10 amps plus) current in the first 30 seconds of run up then you don't need a relay contact feeding power to heater pin 14.

When you don't need a relay:-
7 day timer pin 2 and heater pin 14 are simply connected together.

When you do need a relay:-
7 day timer pin 2 is used to feed "switched +ve" to the relay coil (with other side of coil tied to -ve), and start up /run power to the heater, pin 14 is routed through the relay contact (with start up / run power taken from batt +ve at heater pin 5).

I have the heater RESET info that you have asked for (PM me with email address and I'll send it as a .pdf file).

All the best,

E/boat Steve

p.s. edited part number (removed small c - list shows this model as the non compact version)

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Nov-25-06 @ 10:29 PM


Ellaboat    -- Nov-25-2006 @ 9:18 PM
  Paul,
Part number for overheat sensor (if you need it) is:-

25 1729 40 00 00

E/boat Steve


lamplighter    -- Nov-25-2006 @ 10:08 PM
  Again Many thanks Steve

I have seen these on the RS site rated at various temperatures for a couple of pounds. RS Stock no. 494-0873(Honeywell 2455RC-90820389)

Thursbys seem to want £51.00 for it unless I am losing the plot

Cheers

Paul


Ellaboat    -- Nov-26-2006 @ 11:11 AM
  Paul,

You're not losing the plot.
Eberspacher would charge you (for instance) approx. £120 for the stainless steel air-cooled exhaust fitting.
A bit of searching will turn up the same genuine part for less than half that.
If their spares prices to the public were more reasonable, people  wouldn't start looking elsewhere.

The temperature shut down sensor is obviously a critical item for safety and this is where knowledge is power. (Power to your wallet that is).




E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Nov-26-2006 @ 11:45 AM
  And here's another famous quotation:-
Necessity is the mother of all invention

Never was there a more apt saying than when I dropped my new stainless steel exhaust hull fitting in the drink, under 5 feet of water and buried 1 foot down in the mud. (Something to do with a wire fruit bowl, an oar, a boat hook and the humble, ever versatile, cable tie).

The hull fitting escaped with a few superficial scratches as a reminder of that event.

E/boat Steve


lamplighter    -- Nov-26-2006 @ 12:04 PM
  Hi Steve
Just to let you know I have connected the timer, and reset the unit as per your advice.

Everything seems to be working Apart from the overheat problem hopefully I can pick up a sensor tomorrow, if it is to dear from my local dealer I will get one from RS although the sensor on mine is rated at 170 c and RS do 160 c and 180 c

If I could just ask one more question of you, my wiring diagram as you know does not match my setup, being an older model, I have traced the wiring back as best I can, as you suggested but the color codes seem to be differant, can you advise on the Temperature setting wires, pins 6 and 9. I have used the "T" wire from the old thermostat and connected it to pin 9 but am not sure if thats right or where to connect pin 6

Again many many thanks for your help, I could not have got this far without you.

Best Regards

Paul


lamplighter    -- Nov-26-2006 @ 1:29 PM
  I thought someone asked a quetion about red diesal and Eberspachers
I found this on the Espar site which might help

"Will my Eberspacher heater run on red diesel and how often will it need servicing?"

Answer:
"Our heater products are designed to run on fuel to specification BS EN 590 as stated in the Technical book that accompanies all heaters."

It is commonly thought that red diesel is road diesel with a red dye in it….. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. There are two types of red diesel available, one is Gas Oil with red dye, and the other is Low Sulphur Gas Oil (City Gas Oil) with a red dye. The latter meets BS EN 590 and has the same specification as road diesel.

We have contacted a couple of Fuel Suppliers to ascertain "what exactly is it in the fuel that makes it different”.

The main differences between "Gas Oil (non BS EN 590)" and Low Sulphur Gas Oil (to BS EN 590), is the former has a lower 'Cetane rating' 46 against 52, higher sulphur %Wt 0.2 against 0.005, higher Flash point 82 against 67 and Carbon residue, on 10% distillation residue, %Wt .12 against <0.001.

The fuel commonly found on the canal system is unfortunately "Gas Oil". The other "Red diesel" available is called "City Gas Oil" (ultra low sulphur gas oil) (Linton Fuel Oil Ltd Stock code 103). This meets BS EN 590 and apparently costs the marina only 1.5 pence more per litre. Our contact was quoted saying "why anyone chooses to buy normal gas oil, I don’t know!" another supplier was challenged to why it was not always offered he said "surprisingly no one asks for it but it is readily available."

We have found boat owners using the better quality fuel to have a longer period between servicing, therefore what is needed are people like you demanding this far superior fuel. I am sure you would be happy to pay a few pence more for better fuel.

In answer to your servicing questions our heaters have a service interval of approximately 2000 hrs, this can be adversely affected by the use of Gas Oil (non BS EN 590), bacterial or water contamination. We have many customers who have taken onboard the advice we have given in the past regarding additives and now have far longer service intervals. These additives are ‘Fuel Set’ & ‘Fultron’ and are available from all good chandlers and stockists.

Cheers  Paul


Ellaboat    -- Nov-26-2006 @ 4:13 PM
  Paul,
Just seen your query.
This may be a bit long winded but it will answer your question:-

From your question, it looks like your old controller had an internal thermostat.
If so, you may have to use part of the old controller (i.e. just the 2 temperature SENSOR connections) together with the new 7 day timer.
I have attached a picture of our 7 day timer, just to be sure that we are talking about the same (new) item.

Note that there are 2 connections for the TARGET TEMPERATURE selector (which is a simple variable resistor, not a temperature sensor) AND a further terminal for a true temperature measuring sensor (the common return being shared).

Every Eberspacher has an internal temperature sensor inside the heater (which measures the temp. of the incoming "fresh" air). In the case of a lorry cab installation, no other cabin air temp. sensor is required as the air is just recycled through the heater, so it knows when the target temperature has been reached.
When the fresh air intake is from the outside, a second temperature sensor is required in the cabin. Otherwise it would never reduce it's heat output (unless it was hot outside).

The simple rotary rheostat control supplied with many Ebby's does not have this internal sensor, nor does the 7 day timer, which is meant for a lorry cab.
You can buy cabin temp. sensors for fitting on the bulkhead (as I did) or re-use part of your old "thermostatic control" which seemingly did have one inside.
Note that when the Ebby is run up with a remote cabin temp. sensor fitted, it ignores it's internal sensor. (This was in fact explained earlier in the thread).

On our installation:-
Timer pin 6 goes to heater pin 7
Timer pin 9 goes to heater pin 13
Remote temperature sensor "live" connection goes to heater pin 8
Remote temperature sensor "return" connection shares heater pin 13

"T" usually refers to a remote temperature SENSOR "live" connection

See PM for a rough hand drawing of our full installation wiring.
I'll check this against any info that I have for a D3LC and let you know of any differences that I find.


E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Nov-26-06 @ 4:20 PM


Ellaboat    -- Nov-26-2006 @ 4:18 PM
  Useful info on the fuel, Paul.

In view of that info, can anyone tell us exactly what the red stuff is that we we are putting in our tanks on the broads?

E/boat Steve


Antares_9    -- Nov-26-2006 @ 6:28 PM
  Hi Steve, I believe most if not all fuel on the Broads is to or above EN590, our marina certainly is. Modern diesel engines would be most unhapy running on "Gas Oil", I wonder if you can still get TVO Smile

David

update on cat logic: "Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum" Rene Des Cat


lamplighter    -- Nov-26-2006 @ 7:16 PM
  The fuel quality/Rating will vary depending on manufacturer/supplier, if you can identify who supplies the fuel you might be able to get the figures although some companies are reluctant to publish them

Bearing in mind that red diesel is used in tractors fishing boats etc I assume its not of the highest quality probably due to the lack of profit the fuel company makes

Not that I am cynical at all

Anyway the proof is in the pudding as they say.

When I used red diesel in my heater the carbon build up caused regular startup failures with the glowplug and mesh blocked with carbon.

Since using road diesel the plug and mesh looks brand new with no carbon build up and no start up problems (apart from equipment failure)

I dont have a separate tank for the heater and I couldnt afford to fill the engine tanks with road fuel my secret is to put a few litres of road diesel in every now and then which seems to do the trick

Cheers

Paul




Ellaboat    -- Nov-26-2006 @ 11:20 PM
  Paul,

Unfortunately, I don't have a manual for the older D3LC model.

The biggest change introduced with the later "compact" models was to move the electronic control module inside the heater itself (thereby doing away with the extra bulkhead mounted box).

Wiring of the all the different versions of both DILCc and D3LCc models was essentially identical with one exception:-
Different glow plugs were used, requiring different connections at the heater terminals.
The different glow plugs require either a "pulsed positive" or a "pulsed negative" supply, so when one fails you have to buy the correct replacement for your particular heater.
A further twist is that on some models the supply to the glow plug was routed via an external current regulator and on others it was simply omitted.

(The glow plug info is provided for reference only as it's basically internal wiring, but the drawing that I emailed to you included our "positive" glow plug connections).

Good luck with your heater.  

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Nov-26-2006 @ 11:40 PM
  David,

Since I only buy red diesel on the broads, I think that I am reassured. Confused

The Ebby has been using it for long enough now to show signs of trouble (if it was going to) and our old BMC (admittedly a dated design) has run for years without sooting up.

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Nov-27-2006 @ 9:48 AM
  Paul,

I have sent you a link to buy a cabin temp. sensor, in case you want it.
Personally, I think this makes a better installation, (rather than refitting the old thermostat and leaving it 90 percent redundant).

For info, if your old thermostat was a square box with the rotary control in the lower right hand corner (and on/off switch top right), the original wiring functions are listed below.
If you were to re-use it just as a cabin temperature sensor, the only 2 terminals to reconnect back to the heater would obviously be 1 and 7, with all other connections going to the 7 day timer. (see #)

1 Sensor ref (ground) - to heater pin 13
2 Temperature target  - previously to heater pin 7
3 No connection
4 No connection
5 Battery +ve            - previously from fuse
6 Heater "switch on"  - previously to heater pin 14
7 Cabin temp. sensor  - to heater pin 8 (sensor "live")

Have fun.

E/boat Steve

p.s. thermostat description corrected 28/11/06
also note that the heater pin numbers refer to model D1LCc and D3LCc

#  Sensor ref (ground) is required at BOTH the 7 day timer (pin 9) and one side of the bulkhead mounting cabin temperature sensor.

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Dec-3-06 @ 10:26 AM


Antares_9    -- Nov-27-2006 @ 9:49 AM
  Hi Steve,

Actually MBM did blind test around varions marinas in many areas of the UK and sent the samples off for analysis, the results were all well above the spec required for 590. I understood that a major reason for Ebers, Webos, Makunis et all sooting is that they are not running at capacity, it seems this is an area where going one size more than really needed is not a good idea as if they are not run at full capacity for a high enough proportion of the running time they do soot up prematurely,

update on cat logic: "Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum" Rene Des Cat


Ellaboat    -- Nov-27-2006 @ 9:53 AM
  Hi David,
No worries there then.
Our Ebby works hard in the winter.

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Nov-27-2006 @ 11:05 AM
  Cautionary note (since this is an open forum):-

I was wondering how many Ebby dealers tell their customers how to reset the heater after fault lockout.
Not many I reckon, and probably only then if they consider the end user to be capable/responsible.
You can understand their reluctance, as there is a safety issue here.

Unless the user can identify and cure the cause, resetting it is a short term cure, during which time the heater will again be malfunctioning (and an improper repair could potentially be dangerous).
Having said that, the designers of the Eberspacher deserve respect for the highly effective safety features built into these heaters.

I, for one know nothing about the combustion side of things and all the foregoing electrical information has just been the result of determined digging.



E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Nov-27-06 @ 11:17 AM


Ellaboat    -- Nov-27-2006 @ 12:24 PM
  AND FINALLY:-

Here's a decadent "add on" for anyone with the 7 day timer described earlier:-

1) Lay in a 2 core cable from the timer to a panel by your bunk
2) Connect a momentary action pushbutton (closing contact) across the 2 cores
3) Connect the timer end of the cable across pins 7 and 12
4) Lay in your bunk on a cold morning (having forgotten to set the timer to start the heater), press the button and the heater will run up. Note: pressing it again would shut the heater down
6) Get up anyway as your wife is now demanding a cup of tea Frown



E/boat Steve


Antares_9    -- Nov-27-2006 @ 1:01 PM
  Or train the ships cat to turn it on, mind you if I did that then Bonny would have it on permenantly even in July. Smile

update on cat logic: "Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum" Rene Des Cat


pks1702    -- Nov-27-2006 @ 1:21 PM
  Ships Cat training course



Regards

Perry


Antares_9    -- Nov-27-2006 @ 1:23 PM
  Will somebody please turn this radiater up a bit, I'm freezing Smile  Smile

update on cat logic: "Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum" Rene Des Cat


Ellaboat    -- Nov-27-2006 @ 2:56 PM
  LOLS

I've just curtailed the workrate in old company's service dept. by forwarding that picture on to the female staff.

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Nov-28-2006 @ 10:28 AM
  Paul,

You have had to try and make sense of this info, that (as you know) relates to the later "compact" model of your heater.

Hopefully I will be able to check this info against the wiring diagram for your model in the next few days.
As soon as I do, I will post any differences found in heater pin numbers / functions here.


E/boat Steve


finny    -- Nov-28-2006 @ 3:50 PM
  I,ve been reading this post with intrest, nowt like doin a bit of home work before you take the plunge but with regards sooting up and the quality of the fuel would a drop of a good fuel additive not do the trick to keep thing flowing smoothly ,i only say this as we have a old astra diesel within my lot, a sort of a pool car nicknamed old smokey by the girls, anyway it hardly gets used which is something that diesel,s dont like

I decided to stick it through a mot thinking that it would have its last rite,s ,only to be told by the brother inlaw whos a vehicle technican (dont call em machanics any more ) to try an additive ,we did and it flew through its emissions ,runs and starts like a dream without the smoke ,infact next time iam down at the boat i,am going to drop a bottle in the tank as it says it also lubricates the whole of the fuel system
any thoughts

Finny


Bounty    -- Nov-28-2006 @ 3:59 PM
  For years I used to additive in my diesel at each fill-up. Kept the old BMC lovely and smooth. Since having a Webasto installed, I've stopped, as I'm sure I read on their instructions that it can damage the heater. I keep toying with the idea of having a separate tank fitted, just for the heater.


Antares_9    -- Nov-28-2006 @ 4:00 PM
  Hi Finny,

Both Eberspacher & Webasto are very touchy about addatives, as I recall they only recommend one, a really old one that's been around for years IIRC.

update on cat logic: "Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum" Rene Des Cat


finny    -- Nov-28-2006 @ 4:12 PM
  Hmmm intresting is that ,only we at work have them fitted to all our small waggons ,they used to tip barrels of addatives into the main fuel tank just before the tankers arrived ,nowadays we get Shell to add the addatives at the refinery and although the units are 24volt Wabastos we never seem to have any problems of any sort and they do get hammered over the winter

Finny


Antares_9    -- Nov-29-2006 @ 8:34 AM
  "they do get hammered over the winter"

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Finny, thats exactly what they need to keep the chamber, screens & plugs free of carbon and everything working as it should. Seems just like everything else on a leisure boat, stuff hardly ever gets the chance to wear out and many faults appear from lack of use or corrosion.

NB, I was probably a bit misleading in my earlier post, the additives I was referring to are the type we use not performance & anti waxing ones used on the road i.e. enzyme based & biocide based types to prevent the dreaded bug in diesel and water condensation interface in when the fuel sits in the tank unused for a long time (there we go with that word unused again)

update on cat logic: "Dubito ergo cogito; cogito ergo sum" Rene Des Cat

This message was edited by Antares_9 on Nov-29-06 @ 8:40 AM


Ellaboat    -- Nov-30-2006 @ 10:04 PM
  Installation diagram for a D1LC compact (D1LCc) and 7 day timer
(see attachment)


E/boat Steve

p.s. Here's a tip if your browser is anything like mine:-
Ensure Acrobat Reader is running before clicking on the attachment. (If I fail to do that the browser crashes).

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Dec-1-06 @ 8:28 AM


Ellaboat    -- Dec-2-2006 @ 9:31 PM
  Well, I've posted pretty well everything that I've learnt about these older heaters on this thread (so it's the end of the road for me).

Thanks to everyone else that have contributed to our understanding of these great little units.

Wouldn't it be nice if an Ebby dealer could now chip in with some useful advice (It's all good advertising chaps, and who knows, there could be a forum member out there wanting to purchase new).

E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Dec-2-06 @ 9:50 PM


Ellaboat    -- Jan-17-2007 @ 9:38 AM
  According to an Eberspacher dealer (on the boat show stand), a rubber fuel connection at the heater complies with BSS providing the following applies:-

1) Rubber connection is approved to/marked ISO7840

2) The copper tubing delivering fuel is bulbous at the end to prevent any possibility of it pulling back under the jubilee clip and out of the rubber joint.

If this information can be relied on, the problem then is how to make the bulbous end.
I've just bought a "tube flarer" that looks like it will do the trick (as long as I remove the sharp edge at the end of the copper pipe to prevent damage inside the rubber joint).

The only other course of action is to hacksaw off the bulbous end to the metal fuel inlet tube on the heater, in order to fit a metal joint.
It seems ridiculous to have to hack bits off to comply with BSS. (I'm sure that an Eberspacher dealer would not contemplate such an action).

E/boat Steve

fuel inlet description edited to avoid confusion

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Jan-24-07 @ 9:22 AM


Ellaboat    -- Jan-17-2007 @ 9:44 AM
  Incidentally, Panks have been working on an Eberspacher in our marina, so it does look like they are happy to visit marine installations.

(Next visit to the marina will find me scrutinising the heater fuel connection on that boat!).

E/boat Steve


Antares_9    -- Jan-17-2007 @ 10:11 AM
  Steve, you could always solder an olive on the end (after clearing the line of diesel that is)
I have also seen a flaring tool that will make a little bulbous area like an olive about 1/8" from the end but I can't remember where so I'm a fat lot of use to you Smile

Cat poetry:
For I have promises to keep
And mice to eat before I sleep

This message was edited by Antares_9 on Jan-17-07 @ 10:22 AM


aquaplane    -- Jan-17-2007 @ 3:35 PM
  What size is the pipe?

If it's owt like brake pipe, you used to be able to get a tool to make your own, and that involved making a fater bit near the end of the pipe.

Course if it's not the same size this is no help at all.

I do try, some say I'm very trying. Wink

Bob.

What's wrong with being drunk?
Ask a glass of water.


Ellaboat    -- Jan-17-2007 @ 5:37 PM
  Thanks David/Bob,

I like the idea of soldering on an olive.

The pipe is 2mm inside diameter and about 4 mm outside diameter, so it's not far off brake pipe size.

E/boat Steve


Bounty    -- Jan-17-2007 @ 8:22 PM
  Our Webasto is connected with rigid copper pipe using compression fittings. Passed the BSS without a comment.

Why bother with flexible pipe, as it still needs clamping to the boat in the same way as rigid pipe. The ISO rated fule line is much, much more expensive per length than copper also.

You're making you life needlessly difficult.


Ellaboat    -- Jan-17-2007 @ 11:04 PM
  Hi Bounty,
You've misunderstood the point here.
We have copper pipe - The joint in question is about 5 cms in length (as pictured earlier in thread - DCP5494.jpg).


E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Jan-17-07 @ 11:08 PM


Jimbo    -- Jan-17-2007 @ 11:38 PM
  If you can borrow a hand held brake pipe flaring tool and use op 1 you will be able to gently form a bulge on the end of the pipe.


Bounty    -- Jan-18-2007 @ 9:04 PM
  Sorry ellaboat. You were right. I hadn't looked through this thread for months and, well....lost the thread!


huggy    -- Jan-19-2007 @ 9:09 PM
  will this help anyone?...!!!

I very mich doubt it.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GSM-Handy-Controll-for-all-Eberspaecher-Webasto-Heaters_W0QQitemZ110080552035QQihZ001QQcategoryZ15263QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

....huggy


Antares_9    -- Jan-19-2007 @ 10:42 PM
  Got one Huggy, just add a PAYG mobile phone and you arrive to a nice warm boat, you can connect it via a solenoid to switch amost anything on for a pre timed period.

Cat poetry:
For I have promises to keep
And mice to eat before I sleep


huggy    -- Jan-20-2007 @ 11:14 PM
  thanks antares...think you may have missed that item description on e-bay....have a close digest..
your brief reply is 100 times more explanatory than their 10 paragraphs!!

incidentally i must say that when it comes to webasto servicing, advice and spare parts, jpc marine in wroxham have helped me keep my old hl32d running sweet.

they are at:

http://www.jpcdirect.co.uk/w_marineair.htm

the best advice they have given is to ignore the thermostat and run it flat out and open the windows when it gets too hot!!  this works rather well i must say and minimises servicing & coking up..no idea what it costs in diesel though
..dont know about modern burners or eber's though.

regards

....huggy


Ellaboat    -- Jan-28-2007 @ 10:06 AM
  This whole remote control thing is interesting.

Eberspacher's answer to remote control via cellphone is the "Calltronic" (alias arm and a leg tronic).
A pin number must be entered before it will carry out any instructions, and it responds with voice messages.
I haven't seen one of these, but it appears that all you can do is switch the heater on and off for different periods of time and determine whether it is running or not.
Very handy, but I would want much more for the money, including reporting of heater fault codes and current temperature as monitored in the cabin.

This looks like an interesting project with far greater potential than just controlling an on-board heater.
I've seen suitable GSM modules that accept "pay-as-you-go" SIM cards but they are about 220 Euros each.

Would like to find something cheaper as this is only the first building block.
Any ideas?


E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Feb-14-2007 @ 10:18 AM
  Re-posting of wiring diagram (see attachment).

I've been answering some questions and then realised that the wiring diagram had mysteriously disappeared from page 10.

E/boat Steve


Jeremy    -- Feb-21-2007 @ 6:28 PM
  Hi all,

So my restoration project is coming along ok, hull and upper works are pretty much finished and am moving to inside work.

I am looking to get warm air heating, the Eberspacher D2 seems to be the best option for my boat.
Looking on ebay i see Halls auto sell 2 type of new D2 one for trucks and one for boats. No surprises that the one for boats is about £500 more expensive!

Anyone know what the difference actually is? I'm used to marine stuff being more pricey but that seems excessive. Also anyone used Halls before and can recommend them?

Cheers


‘Better drowned than duffers. If not duffers, won’t drown’
Swallows and Amazons (Chapter 1), 1930


Antares_9    -- Feb-21-2007 @ 7:03 PM
  Boat kit contains quite a bit of extra trunking and outlets, also a SS skin fitting for the exhaust and different fuel tubing. The actual furnace and control systems are identical. All in all nowhere near £500 worth of extra parts as they can all be sourced for about £120

Cat philosophy:
Life was sweet for a broads ships cat


Ellaboat    -- Feb-21-2007 @ 7:54 PM
  Hi all,

This relates to the older D1LC compact but will most likely also apply to the D2:-

There's another subtle difference between truck and boat heaters that often gets overlooked. It doesn't stop the heater from working but it reduces the amount of control that you have over the heat output.

One connecting pin is missing on the control module inside the heater on a truck model. It's not needed on a truck installation where the fresh (heated) air is simply recycled through the heater, but on a boat it allows you to take in fresh air from outside, fit a cabin thermostat and have the heater automatically reduce it's output when the target temp. in the cabin is reached.
The only way that the standard truck setup would do this is if the heater air intake was taken from the same cabin (Discussed earlier in thread).
Thankfully, there is a local source of these pins, so if you consider this a problem it can easily be overcome.


E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Feb-21-07 @ 7:56 PM


BrianPuskas    -- Mar-27-2007 @ 3:30 PM
  I have a D1LC that I just bought from the UK.  I altered it as per instructions from the net to do away with the timer and keep the rotary thermostat.  The thing ran perfect on the bench so I installed it in the vehicle I bought it for.  It ran perfect and number of times while just sitting there in the drive so I took the car out for a spin.  Ran perfect for the 20-30 minutes but then I needed fuel so I turned it off via the rotary switch a few minutes before pulling into the gas station.  The heater has not worked since..

There's power as evidenced by the green LED on the rotary switch, the glow plug heats up and looks new (no grunge), the fuel pump/regulator pushed fuel through the line when the leads are pulsed on neg/pos battery terminals....can anyone give me some suggestions?  These are not popular here and I have no access to diagnostic equipment for these units.  

Thanks!


Antares_9    -- Mar-28-2007 @ 2:25 PM
  Do you recall if it powered down correctly, i.e. continued to run for about 90 seconds after you turned it off, also have you connected it directly to a permenant live circuit so that power to it can not be interrupted whilst it is still either running or in power down "purge" mode. Not sure of the model year but it may now be "locked out" and require an agent reset if it is an earlier one.

Meus stilus es pelagus testes

Cat philosophy:
Life was sweet for a broads ships cat


BrianPuskas    -- Mar-28-2007 @ 2:46 PM
  The car is pretty loud...not sure if it powered down correctly.  I remember thinking that I may have to wait a bit at the pumps and was a bit surprised that is was off already.  It is wired directly to the battery so remains on after the ignition is turned off.

One thing I believe I did incorrectly was to have the heater air intake (not combustion) just scavenge from the trunk for the trial.  But the trunk is pretty air tight...looking at it last night I doubt there would have been enough air infiltration to provide adequate air flow through the heater.  My intention was/is to run a duct into the interior of the car but in my haste to get it working and try it out I left that for the initial run.  Worked fine in the garage...but of course the trunk was open.

Brian


Natashafour    -- Nov-6-2007 @ 4:41 PM
  I bought a used Eberspacher D1LC heater and am trying to install it in a boat. The distributor in New England says that the heater cannot have ¼ or ½ inch tubing tapped off a main fuel line (just after the fuel filters) and then reduced into the short length of mini-hose, which came with the heater. They say that mini-hose (or tubing) must be used all the way from the tank. Also their plastic wall heat grill would stick up 3 inches if installed thru floor. Are there floor grills available? Why does the incoming ignition air have to come through flexible metal tubing?

DonW


Antares_9    -- Nov-6-2007 @ 9:53 PM
  Bit difficult to answer your questions re combustion air intake as from your address then I believe U.S.C.G. regulations apply and they may insist upon it though we do not it the UK. So I will not be able to help on that score other than to say it is much quieter with an intake tube and silencer. There are flush grilles avaiable to suit your requirements but they would not stand up to walking on if they are floor fitted. Your dealer is correct reference the fuel tube size, as for it's material, please check U.S.C.G. regulations. There are also specified maximum tube lengths before and after the pump and also lift height from the tank.


NeilA    -- Dec-9-2007 @ 7:58 PM
  Having just lept in without doing any reserch ( silly I know) but lets be honest ebay can be addictive! I have just purchased a D4L 24 volt all seems in very good condition and I wanted to use it in place of the D3L that suffered damage after some shotblasting on my boat. It is a unit that has obviously been removed from a lorry/coach etc but on closer examination I noted that the electronic control box says 12 volt so I double checked the heater unit and it has the origional plate on the side stating 24 volt. The whole lot is proffesionaly mounted in a steel box and looks origional. Can anyone shed any light on wheather its 12 or 24 volt. I,m hoping it is 24 the same as the rest of the boat.


wherryman    -- Dec-10-2007 @ 2:14 PM
  Hi all, hopefully an easy answer to what I hope is a straightforward problem for you wise souls ! My boat has been laid up for a few months though the domestic battery has a solar trickle charger on it and all domestics work fine.
The eber has one of the square boxes with rotary dial and on off switch. On switching on the green and red shine brightly then fade to a dim green/red after a few seconds, and nothing happens to the eber itself   - i guess this is simply the battery not being up to capacity or are there any parts that can "stick" when not used for a while ?  Thanks !  Smile

This message was edited by wherryman on Dec-10-07 @ 2:16 PM


wherryman    -- Dec-11-2007 @ 7:44 PM
  Problem solved - as simple as checking all the connections and tightening - must have been a loose wire, phew, no expensive call out !!  


Ellaboat    -- Dec-16-2007 @ 12:49 AM
  Is it really 2 years since I bought that secondhand Ebby (and fitted it while my wife sat patiently waiting to start her holiday).

I'm happy to report that it's still going strong.

I carried out some mods before submitting the boat for BSS inspection - Notably replacement rubber fuel line joints (approved to ISO7840) and splaying / rounding off the end of the copper fuel pipe (to prevent any possibly of the rubber joint pulling off), as advised by the Ebby dealer at the boat show.
I also properly secured the hot air ducting (60 mm dia.) and found that round plastic drain pipe clips did the job a treat. There's enough variation in diameter (depending on how far the securing screws are spaced apart) to fit the thermal insulating wrap first.

Here's to another year of warmth.

E/boat Steve


ncsl    -- Dec-22-2007 @ 6:16 PM
  Have read most of Steve's thread and would like to know if the B1LC (petrol fueled type ) is OK to fit regarding the BSS?

As I have a petrol engine I would not want to have the trouble of fitting an addition diesel fuel tank.

Any one have these fitted??

Regards
ncsl.co.uk

"Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday"

<a href="callto://paul-ncsl">SKYPE Me</a>


"Lord Paul of Sealand"
www.lordofsealand.co.uk


rudging    -- Jan-4-2008 @ 9:27 AM
  Hi all, I have read this thread with interest, as usual it contains some really good info. I have  a small issue with my D1LC which someone may be able to help with. I fitted a thermostat in the cabin after adding the extra wire to the heater for remote sensing. The thermostat box has a 3 position rocker switch and the heater starts and runs if I put the switch to the left (red LED) but appears to run on full output regardless of the cabin temperature. I thought perhaps the thermostat was faulty (secondhand) so I have purchased a new one but this has only a 2 position rocker switch (no central point).Is anyone familiar with this type and which position is 'on'? - thanks


ncsl    -- Jan-4-2008 @ 10:27 PM
  Can not help with your type of controller but there some web sites around that may be able to throw some light on the trouble.
I have a D1LC running on the bench at the moment but that has the rheostat type controller.

Voltage, both above and below certain limits are important and can stop in a fault situation .

Regards
ncsl.co.uk

"Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday"

<a href="callto://paul-ncsl">SKYPE Me</a>


"Lord Paul of Sealand"
www.lordofsealand.co.uk


Ellaboat    -- Jan-5-2008 @ 9:31 AM
  problems editing - see next post

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Jan-5-08 @ 9:51 AM


rudging    -- Jan-5-2008 @ 9:40 AM
  Hi, my DILC is the compact type with internal controller. I have checked the voltages and all is OK and the heater fires up correctly and, when I return the 3 position rocker switch to the central position, goes through the shut down routine. So everything appears fine except the rotary thermostat doesn't appear to do anything. I did once put the switch to the 'o' position but the green LED did not light and the heater started to 'pulse' so i switched back to the central position and it shut down as normal - Colin


Ellaboat    -- Jan-5-2008 @ 9:56 AM
  message edited because the info was wrong.

I initially told Colin the NO controllers included a separate temperature sensor inside them.
Colin has a controller that can also be used on the new Airtronic heaters.
Controller (part number 30100154) does indeed have an internal ambient temperature sensor inside and the connections are as follows:-

Controller pin 1 (common ground) to heater pin 13
Controller pin 2 (target temp set) to heater pin 7
Controller pin 3 (no connection)
Controller pin 4 (no connection)
Controller pin 5 (supply positive) to heater pin 5
Controller pin 6 (heater start) to heater pin 14
Controller pin "T" (ambient temp sense) to htr pin 8





This message was edited by Ellaboat on Jan-5-08 @ 10:46 PM


Ellaboat    -- Jan-5-2008 @ 10:08 AM
  Colin (rudging):-

More info earlier in thread:-
page 8 (post dated Nov 26 2006 at 4:13 PM)
page 9 (post dated Nov 27 2006 at 9:48 AM).

We can continue with PM's if I can be of any further help.

E/boat Steve

p.s. Is anyone else having horrendous problems with loss of paragraphs ("carriage return/line feed" or lack of it!)

E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Jan-5-08 @ 10:48 PM


Swordfish    -- Jan-5-2008 @ 10:53 AM
  Just a little tip for anyone having to wade through multi page posts. If you log in, go to preferences and under the heading...

Default Topics Returned:Show me  topics/messages at a time...change to 99.

Then click the Update button.

Paul

This message was edited by Swordfish on Jan-5-08 @ 10:55 AM


Ellaboat    -- Jan-6-2008 @ 8:25 AM
  You live and learn.
Thanks Swordfish!

(that makes this thread just 2 pages long).

E/boat Steve



This message was edited by Ellaboat on Jan-6-08 @ 8:27 AM


Ellaboat    -- Jan-14-2008 @ 12:10 PM
  I used to think that manuals for older heaters were unobtainable, but (unless I'm just not very observant) something new has happened.

Anyone with older D1L or D1LC (non compact) heaters can now download a technical manual here (not that the spares situation will change on these models):-

http://www.eberspacher.com/support.php?section=support

E/boat Steve

p.s. manuals for several of the newer models are available too

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Jan-14-08 @ 12:15 PM


Ellaboat    -- Jan-14-2008 @ 1:05 PM
  There's something in our installation that I have never explained my reasons for:-

We have 3 cabin outlets - 2 are supplied by branching the air duct using either a "Y piece" or a "Y branch" (offset Y with one straight through path and one off at an angle).
Our third outlet is in the tiny rear cabin, so I wanted to reduce the air flow to this cabin whilst  maximising flow to the others.
This is the reason for the "T piece" close to the heater output and it has the desired effect, although air flow in the rear cabin is drastically reduced when all 3 outlets are open.

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-14-2008 @ 1:11 PM
  Forgot to add the picture..

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jan-27-2008 @ 12:06 PM
  I'm never happy to settle for a basic bit of kit when (with a little bit of work), a potentially useful feature can be added.
All the latest heaters allow for them to blow cool air in summer, so why not the D1LC compact?
The answer, it seems, is that it was a rarely used option that vehicle manufacturers could choose to wire into their vehicle's blower controls.
I've found the relevant connection, but I'll bet this will be another missing pin on the control module multiplug.
I won't be able to check this out on board for some time, but I'll update the thread if and when I find that it works.
If Lord Paul is reading this, it's why I asked him if he wouldn't mind checking multiplug pin 1 on his "new" heater.

E/boat Steve

p.s. info to date is that +ve supply volts (12 or 24 per heater voltage) applied to pin 1 should theoretically operate the blower for cool air. As of yet, I don't know whether this is just a control function or would carry the blower motor current. (I suspect the former) - this post will be replaced by firm info when I have it.

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Jan-27-08 @ 12:19 PM


savage    -- Feb-24-2008 @ 8:34 PM
  Eberspacher D3LC. Thermostat 12v part number 30100154.
I was directed to this very useful Forum when I started searching for information about the Eberspacher 12v thermostat, part number 30100154.
My D3LC heater seems to work well, if with a little too much fan noise but it is getting on now. When fired up the heater gives out enough heat to warm the boat. However, I think the thermostat(+ start-stop switch) has developed a fault. Using the three position rocker switch seems to enable starting and the correct close down sequence. It will also just circulate cold air. When the heater has started and the thermostat turned to high, the heater and fan run at full speed, which would be expected, but, when the thermostat is turned down to low, there is no corresponding reduction in heater or fan setting. Occasionally, if you turn the thermostat down, it will run at a low setting but then often stops. If you turn the thermostat higher it starts again but it doesn't seem to follow the thermostat instructions.
Has anyone experienced similar problems? Am I right in thinking that the thermostat is faulty and the solution is to purchase a replacement part and fit it, or is there more to this than that?
Any help with this matter would be most gratefully received.
Regards,
David Cooper


savage    -- Feb-24-2008 @ 9:33 PM
  This link raises some interesting issues relating to Eberspacher heaters and liveaboards

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=3516&st=0


Ellaboat    -- Apr-11-2008 @ 11:33 AM
  Hi savage,

Interesting thread.

The high usage associated with liveaboards certainly does highlight the red diesel compatibility problems much sooner than the likes of a Broads Cruiser.
It would seem obvious that these heaters were never designed for the marine market but have been adapted with marine installation kits to tap into this lucrative market.
It also makes me wonder about the wisdom of fitting a remote cabin thermostat but in reality it only comes into play when we are cooking and the heater runs back up to full power afterwards.
It seems that our case of having a heater that can only just cope with the area being served is a positive advantage.

E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Apr-11-08 @ 12:59 PM


Ellaboat    -- Apr-11-2008 @ 12:16 PM
  The "idling = sooting" point was made by someone earlier in this thread too.

I read somewhere that the Gas Oil available on canals is the real industrial stuff that has a lower cetane rating than that sold on the Broads or coastal marinas.
Is this true or total rubbish (and how do the respective sulphur contents compare)?

We have been running off the main engine's tank (on the Broads) for close on 2.5 years without a hint of a problem, yet...


E/boat Steve


Antares_9    -- Apr-11-2008 @ 12:35 PM
  Exacly right Steve, they are much better run at full whack. Also many people forget that these things do need a decoke every now and again or the burner tube cokes up to a state where it will smoke like a trooper or just fail to ignite.


Ellaboat    -- Apr-11-2008 @ 2:02 PM
  Hi David,

It seems that we are well overdue for a service (not forgetting that this unit was bought secondhand and put straight to work), but it currently produces smokeless exhaust and always has.
It will have to wait for the winter now for a "wash and brush up."

All the best,
Steve

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Apr-11-2008 @ 2:20 PM
  Exhaust noise

I can't understand all the fuss I've read elsewhere about exhaust noise unless our heater is particularly quiet.
Just having one object blocking line of sight to the exhaust outlet renders it inaudible (and we don't have a silencer).
Sideways on with the exhaust facing the river would never bother anyone (ahead or astern) inside their boat at dead of night.
Stern on alongside another boat would be audible inside and probably enhanced by sound bouncing between the 2 hulls, but I wouldn't run it then anyway because of the fume hazard.

E/boat Steve


finny    -- Apr-11-2008 @ 3:26 PM
  Its intresting that steve only when we had ours fitted ( new Airtronic 2) i really thought that it was quite noisey and was mind full about using very early or to late into the night and regreted not having a silencer fitted at installation

Finny


Ellaboat    -- Apr-11-2008 @ 4:04 PM
  Hi finny,
I would be interested to do a comparison some time. Maybe someone else will disagree with me but I don't find the sound of our exhaust bothersome at all (not like listening to a diesel generator).
We have a liveaboard not far from us in the marina and I walked towards them to see just how much they could hear but found that the bow of my neighbours boat stopped the sound stone dead. (I wish that I could do the same with the smoke from the liveaboards coal fire).

E/boat Steve

This message was edited by Ellaboat on Apr-11-08 @ 5:06 PM


palmtree    -- Apr-11-2008 @ 5:10 PM
 
Do you reef on the Sea of Tranquility?

This message was edited by palmtree on Nov-27-08 @ 9:47 PM


pks1702    -- Apr-13-2008 @ 3:54 PM
  A well fitted Eber or Webo is barely audible from a few feet away Steve, ours like yours is very quiet. I think some folks like to make a fuss as its not 'traditional' so while we are nice and warm they are shivering in their sleeping bags convincing themselves how enjoyable 'traditional' is.   LOL LOL LOL

Regards

Perry

It is not wealth or ancestry,
but honourable conduct and a noble disposition,
that maketh men great


Ellaboat    -- Apr-13-2008 @ 7:45 PM
  LOL

I can remember "traditional" (just), and they're welcome to it..

E/boat Steve


finny    -- Apr-14-2008 @ 1:33 PM
  perry
"A well fitted Eber or Webo is barely Audible from a few feet away ,our's like yours is very quiet"

it very well could be quiet to you perry but when  stern on mooring  it could be a nightmare to anybody alongside more so if its exhausting in there direction and going on all night

personaly after hearing for myself the difference of what  effect a  silencer can have in terms of output noise i dont think that you should be allowed to have warn air fitted without one

but then again not everyone is as considerate as me
Wink

Finny

This message was edited by finny on Apr-14-08 @ 2:35 PM


pks1702    -- Apr-14-2008 @ 2:01 PM
  Well you have my vote Finny, don't make too much noise polishing that Halo  LOL

Regards

Perry

It is not wealth or ancestry,
but honourable conduct and a noble disposition,
that maketh men great


finny    -- Apr-14-2008 @ 2:11 PM
  rumour has it that over polished Halo's have been know to slip causing self strangulation


  Wink

Finny

This message was edited by finny on Apr-14-08 @ 3:12 PM


Ellaboat    -- Apr-22-2008 @ 6:21 PM
  Just found this pic of the fuel tank standpipe.

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Sep-3-2009 @ 10:46 PM
  Odd goings on:-
Had an email today stating that "alexhanson" had posted on this thread, so I visited but there was nothing.
Curiously, the forum was listing me as having posted last on this thread (earlier today) but I have not posted here for almost 18 months.

Our Ebby is still going strong.
That's 4 years now and bought secondhand on Ebay.
Can't complain about that Smile

E/boat Steve


Ellaboat    -- Jun-14-2010 @ 9:38 AM
  If you had told me when I started this thread that it would eventually achieve 40000+ hits, I would have said "don't be daft."
But here we are, and still our Ebby is going strong.
That has to be an endorsement for buying seocondhand on Ebay.

There was talk earlier about the desirability of fitting exhaust silencers, but all I can find is the square metal boxes designed for external fitting underneath the likes of motor caravans. Not only do these get hot, but they are not guaranteed to be air tight (leak free).
So what should someone fit inside a boat (if they don't want to increase the risk of fire or being gassed)?
I have not properly researched this, so it's a genuine question that I have no answer for.

Steve


barlow.t    -- Jan-23-2013 @ 11:50 AM
  i know you have mentioned ebay, but try the following site, they offer warranty with all heaters unlike many on ebay and its all at ebay prices. http://www.eberspachersales.com/


The Norfolk Broads Forum : http://www.the-norfolk-broads.co.uk
Topic: http://www.the-norfolk-broads.co.uk/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=38&Topic=3120