Topic: Problem on the river Chet


billmaxted    -- Aug-9-2018 @ 8:53 PM
  This letter from Chedgrave Parish council to the Broads authority may be of import. to members travelling the Southern Rivers.

Re: Craft obstructing River Chet (Langley with Hardley/Chedgrave area)

As you will no doubt be aware, a holiday boat recently sank in the River Chet having collided with a collapsed part of a ‘sunken quay heading’.   I have been asked by members of Chedgrave Parish Council to contact you regarding this matter as one of our councillors has reported that she does not feel that the Broads Authority is taking the issue seriously in giving a response that signage was in place to warn river users of under water hazards.

While this may be the case, the fact remains that the majority of users are likely to be pleasure users/holiday makers with limited awareness of signs and their implications.  It is felt that while hazards like this remain, other pleasure boatyards will be discouraging their customers from visiting stretches of the broads network where there are hazards like this, thus reducing potential commerce in those areas.  If heading away from Chedgrave, the hazard is situated beyond Hardley Flood.

We would like to request that urgent action is taken to repair the sunken quay heading in order that users can confidently and safely navigate this part of the broads network.

I am copying this letter to the Clerk of Langley with Hardly Parish Council as I understand that the hazard sits within their parish boundary.

I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,



Hayley Goldson, Clerk, Chedgrave Parish Council

cc: Carla Petersen, Clerk, Langley with Hardley Parish Council

The quay heading in question is between Hardley Cross and hardley flood

Bill...(The Ancient Mardler)


Paladine    -- Aug-10-2018 @ 6:20 AM
 
That’s an interesting letter.

If the obstruction is a sunken quay heading, is it not the responsibility of the landowner?

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


billmaxted    -- Aug-10-2018 @ 7:20 AM
  Not necessarily so if it's what the EA and BESEL are supposed to have removed  Frown

Bill...(The Ancient Mardler)


Grendel    -- Aug-10-2018 @ 7:40 AM
  Bill, can the contents of the letter be posted elsewhere for information purposes

we do the impossible every day,
miracles take a little longer


Paladine    -- Aug-10-2018 @ 7:42 AM
 
So it could be the landowner, or EA or BESL? But not down to the BA, then?

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


billmaxted    -- Aug-10-2018 @ 8:19 AM
  C.P.C. are simply inviting a response to a factual situation.  No comment or suggestions are being made.  I have posted here least residents in other parishes which look at this site are not aware of the situation.  I am not aware for what may have happened since the parish council meeting certainly as a councillor I have heard no more.

Bill...(The Ancient Mardler)


Hylander    -- Aug-10-2018 @ 9:37 AM
  Grendel - the more folk who know about this the better dont you think.  I am sure Bill wont object.

Women dont nag they just
point
things out...



M


boat-mad    -- Aug-10-2018 @ 12:21 PM
  I have booked Pacific Vista from Pacific Cruisers based in Loddon.  Should I be concerned ?  Question

Kind Regards
Alan...
www.mynorfolkbroadsboating.co.uk/


Helmsman1946    -- Aug-10-2018 @ 12:52 PM
  Basically no but avoid the banks and specially any markers between Hardley Flood and hardley Cross

Peter


Paladine    -- Aug-10-2018 @ 12:54 PM
 
Concerned? I don’t think so. Apparently the obstruction has been marked, and it’s to the side of the river. Simply keep clear of the marked area.

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


This message was edited by Paladine on Aug-10-18 @ 1:55 PM


boat-mad    -- Aug-10-2018 @ 12:58 PM
  Many thanks for responses. Now looking forward to September the 1st when we pick the boat up. Cheers

Kind Regards
Alan...
www.mynorfolkbroadsboating.co.uk/


Karen&Mike    -- Aug-10-2018 @ 3:38 PM
  Grendel, I imagine that if Bill wants to post it elsewhere, he will. Depends where he posts, but I think without his permission it would be wrong to copy and paste. Perhaps as an interim measure if you are concerned about people being informed, you direct them to this forum where posts can be read freely, without membership.

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"


billmaxted    -- Aug-11-2018 @ 8:57 AM
  I think in fact they now have there own post on site.  I only post here and would prefer to be able just to be able to update my own postings as necessary.  'Copy & Posts' can get misleading if all do not get updated at the same time.

Bill...(The Ancient Mardler)


Karen&Mike    -- Aug-11-2018 @ 9:42 AM
  Many thanks Bill for your further comments, and I do agree with your view on the copy and paste thing.

I also find it a rather frustrating when "members" who left here and stopped posting a long time ago decide to sign in again and post when they want to copy something and take it elsewhere. A tad cheeky in my view.

Regards, Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"


Paladine    -- Aug-11-2018 @ 4:02 PM
 
Asking permission to use what is, in effect, copyright material, is surely better than just 'nicking it'. According to the poster on NBN, Bill gave his permission, and origin has been acknowledged, so I can't actually see a problem.

I think we are big enough to rise above the petty criticisms seen elsewhere. That people come back, no matter for how brief a time, shows we still have something to offer them. It shows, as well, that we are still a 'go-to' forum, even if the lurkers 'went-from'. Smile

But I do understand how you feel, Karen&Mike  Wink  

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


billmaxted    -- Aug-11-2018 @ 4:14 PM
  I don't think that there is any limit on the number of times one can travel on the road to Damascus.  tounge-in-cheek  Although these days the journey can be bumpy to say the least!

Bill...(The Ancient Mardler)


Karen&Mike    -- Aug-11-2018 @ 7:08 PM
  I agree that asking is better than simply taking, but I still think it s cheeky to maintain membership for a long period without ever contributing, then reappear  when wanting to use an item posted here for the new "club" of preference. That's my grumble.

I think it's because I'm a very loyal person and my mum and dad always brought me up to do the right and proper thing ,  but these days I accept that's an old fashioned concept. Good Lord  I sound 100 years old lol.

I  don't  read any other forums  so wouldn't know what has been posted about this elsewhere, nor that Bill had given permission. Hence I posted my caution, and my views.

Karen


"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"


billmaxted    -- Aug-15-2018 @ 6:17 AM
  A reply from the authority indicates that the quay head involved is the responsibility of E.A who have contacted BESL as their agents and a respond is awaited.  Marking with a yellow float and stakes is being monitored.


Bill...(The Ancient Mardler)


Marshman    -- Aug-15-2018 @ 7:39 AM
  Thanks Bill for confirming that - much as I expected!

Just goes to show that the BA are not responsible for everything that happens!!


Paladine    -- Aug-15-2018 @ 10:28 AM
 
"Just goes to show that the BA are not responsible for everything that happens!!"

As was pointed out within the first few posts on this thread  Smile

Thanks Bill.

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015)


JP    -- Aug-15-2018 @ 12:10 PM
  Thanks Bill for posting the update and yes, unlike the Canal and River Trust the Broads Authority, doesn’t own the “track” and therefore has to work closely with landowners and other agencies to deal with hazards on the bank.

The sinking of a hire boat after it struck the bank is fortunately an extremely unusual event but this particular incident raises concerns about the poor state of some of the old flood defences around the Broads.

The Broads Authority, its members and officers, take all matters concerned with the safety of the public extremely seriously and have therefore responded very quickly to this matter in drawing the Environment Agency’s attention to this hazard posed by this section of old piling.

Given our concerns about the hazards posed by this piling and concerns that our Head of Ranger Services has about the condition of the bank owned and maintained by the Environment Agency in the New Cut I emailed the senior engineer responsible and was pleased to receive a rapid response indicating that he would “ask BESL to attend to the issue as a matter of urgency.”

There are a significant number of hazards in and around the navigable system and the rangers are very alive to their presence and assiduous in either taking immediate action or marking them so that all boat owners and hirers can avoid them.

All hazards are not just marked on the ground but also logged. Our 24 hour moorings are regularly inspected and if an issue is identified by the Ranger it is automatically flagged through the computer system to the Construction of Maintenance Team to deal with in a timescale commensurate with its importance.

I am out on the river tomorrow so will have a look at this section of quay heading for myself.

With regards
John



Karen&Mike    -- Aug-15-2018 @ 12:40 PM
  Thanks to Bill for keeping us informed, and now also JP for his detailed reply about the situation as a whole.

Much appreciated, Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"


MandA    -- Aug-15-2018 @ 6:14 PM
  Where the quay is collapsed it would be difficult for 2 12ft craft to pass without coming into contact with the quay the collapse is clearly visible at low water but would be below water at some state of the tide .It wasn’t marked on our first trip on the Chet ‘this year but was marked after the hireboat sinking .low water is best time pass if possible as you can clearly see the problem.

MandA


JP    -- Aug-16-2018 @ 4:39 PM
  Afternoon,

Thought you might like to see the photo I took of the site this morning.

Regards

John



kfurbank    -- Aug-16-2018 @ 5:07 PM
  John, to quote your post from earlier

"The Broads Authority, its members and officers, take all matters concerned with the safety of the public extremely seriously and have therefore responded very quickly to this matter in drawing the Environment Agency’s attention to this hazard posed by this section of old piling.

Given our concerns about the hazards posed by this piling and concerns that our Head of Ranger Services has about the condition of the bank owned and maintained by the Environment Agency in the New Cut I emailed the senior engineer responsible and was pleased to receive a rapid response indicating that he would “ask BESL to attend to the issue as a matter of urgency.” "

I believe it's fair to say that the section of quay heading in question has been in that state for at least four and a half months! There were Yellow markers back then. Given how tight that section of The Chet is, surely a much quicker response is required from the EA and BESL, as well as some more substantial temporary protection around the area in question?

With the tide underneath you, the wind blowing and a 44ft boat coming towards you, it can get very tricky there at the best of times, without bits of metal quay heading sticking out into the navigation marked by a few twigs! Would it not have been possible to arrange for some of the red and green marker posts that were removed from the Chet to have been installed to mark and keep the bank back?


Marshman    -- Aug-16-2018 @ 7:25 PM
  I am very glad that those large steel posts were NOT moved further down! They were a real danger to sailing boats - yes some people like to sail down the Chet including wherries!

I really do not understand why people cannot just go down either slowly enough to steer around the yellow warnings posts or any obstruction. Have any other incidents been reported - if not and its been there since the beginning of the season, I think you can safely assume that apart from 1 person, the rest of us have not had a particular problem coping!


Exile    -- Aug-16-2018 @ 10:19 PM
  If I see anything marked like that in yellow, red or orange I simply keep clear. It looks pretty well marked to me.
Obviously better to get it fixed. In the meantime there should not really be any particular danger if everyone uses common sense.


billmaxted    -- Aug-17-2018 @ 7:57 AM
  In fairness the Chet is narrow with a lot of blind bends.  In point of fact it is often the over cautious that come to grief. They find something big coming towards them and in a bit of a panic lose all way and end up scqued across the river pointing at something hard.  Slow steady progress is very much the order of the day recognising that you may not get much advance warning.

Before BESL got their hands on our river things were not too bad, some soft bank and reed bed and old but flexible boarding (the main problem being rusty bolts sticking out)  Modern piling has very little give which makes it less forgiving.  Horizontal boards fixed to uprights no less than 15 foot apart at least give you a chance of laying alongside.  I don’t know the circumstances of the recent accident, but, based on past experience I suspect that they may have tried to hug the bank and keep out of the way only to be driven hard against what was there by the wash.

Most locals have known that this was an accident waiting to happen for a long time and have said so but of course it never appeared on a computer model so no-one took any notice

Bill...(The Ancient Mardler)


billmaxted    -- Sep-2-2018 @ 3:24 PM
  Obstructions due to be removed this October, it may involve short term closure of the navigation for safety reasons whilst the teeth are pulled but I'm sure that notice will be posted in good time.  A bit of a "fag" but better than leaving it longer, when patrols will be less evident and further problems might not be spotted until real harm was done.

Bill...(The Ancient Mardler)


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