Topic: Richardsons wrong??


Dzign    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 10:30 AM
  In a new 160 page paper back book created by Richardsons and given out for free on the BA stand at the London boat show, they claim that if you don't want boats to double moor against you, you must "move on" (page 157 under double mooring, the last time I looked at the sign's they had been amended to say "with the owners permission".
Feel that this could create some friction at times, that it is badly worded and wrong (unless the BA have changed things yet again).
A quick look at the fishing section and they don't seem to have mentioned the need for a licence.


Lee


boat-mad    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 10:42 AM
  Lee hi,

Attached is a pic I took at the beginning of October last year (2014).

Quote “Please reach agreement with those on board the other boat before mooring alongside”

Still seems a bit of a grey area to me.  What if someone won't agree. Confused

Sorry. Forgot to attach pic which is now on the next post.

Kind Regards
Alan...
www.mynorfolkbroadsboating.co.uk/


This message was edited by boat-mad on Jan-12-15 @ 10:50 AM


boat-mad    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 10:44 AM
  Sorry,

Forgot to attach pic Blush

Kind Regards
Alan...
www.mynorfolkbroadsboating.co.uk/


TerryTibbs    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 11:25 AM
  To be honest I think it's only good manners to check with the land side boat before mooring to it. They may want to leave shortly or even early morning and if your not around that leaves them with the problem of moving your boat to get out.
Just good old fashioned courtesy.

Dave Smile

Je Suis Charlie


rustic    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 11:36 AM
  From previous experience, it is not the first time that Richardsons have got it wrong.
They seem to excel at it, at this time of year.

Remember the publication, this time last year aimed at the younger ones, you had a game where you scored points for hitting another boat, or getting drunk, or being sick on board etc etc.

They eventually apologised and republished a calmer version after many complaints, and a lot from members on this forum.

This information looks like it is based on BA's rules from three years ago, which have been ammended to say, only with the other boats permission.
No moving off required. Unless BA have back peddled.  

Just to clarify, that double mooring can only be possible, if the boat coming along side is smaller or of the same size as the boat already moored, that is before permission is even considered.




best regards, Richard.

A man who dares to waste one hour
of time has not discovered the value
of life.                       Charles Darwin


Paladine    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 11:42 AM
  The issue of double mooring was comprehensively discussed in 2013, with a pretty good summary here , (but the link in the post no longer works, which is why I’ve reproduced the info from the current web page).

Dzign, a couple of questions. When was the booklet first printed and will you post a scan of the particular page? I’m thinking that the printing date was after the time the BA initially promulgated its policy of compulsory double-mooring, but before the change of that policy. Understandable if Richardson’s didn’t want the expense of a complete re-print, but hardly excusable. Have you spoken to Richardson's about this?

Richardson's web site contains a huge amount of helpful information and advice for boaters, and I think credit should be given for that, including, from one of their guides:

"If a river is wide you may moor against another boat (double mooring). Please always speak to the people on board the other boat before doing so and approach carefully against the tide and have a crew member ready with the ropes. Put the short lines to the other boat first and then use the long lines to also tie your boat to the shore."

And from another:

"Can I actually fish the fish?
Sure, as long as you’ve got a licence.
Remember the fishing season is closed between 15th March and 15th June."


From the Broads Authority’s web site:

"Double Mooring
Due to pressure on mooring spaces, we have designated 20 moorings for double alongside mooring. Each site has a sign stating that double mooring is permitted.

In consultation with the hire boat federation we have compiled the following Advice for hirers - Double Mooring (pdf document) [95kb] [See attachment]

Remember
•     Don't double moor without permission to tie up to the first boat.
•     A private boat mooring would be advised to have the bow and stern lines direct from the vessel to the shore - hire vessels do not have the same number or length of lines.
•     Always try and arrange for the boat leaving first to be on the outside but, if you are the inside boat and wish to move on, ask the crew on the outside boat to move. Remember to ensure the outside vessel is re-secured safely.  If the crew on the adjoining boat are unable to assist, keep a line ashore from their vessel and consider the tide or river flow before you plan the manoeuvre.
•     Crossing the first vessel to the bank is at your own risk and you may be held responsible for any damage."


It might be a good idea to print off a copy of the BA official guidance and keep it on board, just in case there is a friction point.

Or you could just allow someone to double moor against you, if they ask nicely   Smile

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


This message was edited by Paladine on Jan-12-15 @ 11:53 AM


Dzign    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 12:27 PM
  Hi Paladine.
Sorry to busy to work out how to scan and send this but the book was published Jan 2015...
The actual wording is "if you are already moored at a Broads Authority 24 hour mooring which allows double mooring. You must allow another boat to moor alongside if there is insufficient room for other boats to moor alongside the bank, or you must leave the mooring"....
This could mean that if you are not happy with this situation that you may have to leave the moorings after a night in the Swan where you have may have drunk one or two to many

Lee


Paladine    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 12:32 PM
 
Thank you, Dzign. That is clearly totally wrong information. Have you pointed this out to Richardson's?

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


Darkhorse    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 1:38 PM
  Hi All, sorry if I sound a little bitchy on this one
but if you didn't want someone to moor along side
you during busy times then why oh why would you
choose to moor where there is expressly a sign
saying please double moor in busy times. Bye law 66
is even printed on the sign and, IMHO someone who is
moored here and then says you cannot moor alongside
is contravening that byelaw. I sail in the Solent
during some big regatta's and if you were not
prepared to have someone moor alongside then you
would be very unpopular...it can be 4 or more deep
sometimes !! Personally provided that the outside
boat is respectful then I do not see a problem, I
prefer the quieter times of year
but if you go to a busy mooring at a busy time then
what you see is what you get.

The more I practice the luckier
I get.


This message was edited by Darkhorse on Jan-12-15 @ 2:19 PM


Dzign    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 2:22 PM
  Hi Darkhorse,
If you look at the lettering below where it says Stokesby,it says quite clearly that you must seek permission to moor alongside.
There is a big difference to cruising the Solent,I know people who moor at Lowestoft and if a boat hits another then insurance company info is exchanged.
When I was At the show yesterday and was looking around the Richardsons hire boat on display I overheard a conversation between a prospective customer and a Richardsons representative answering a question relating to insurance, the reply was along the lines of "no problem you bend them and we will fix it it's not a problem, don't worry about it".....

Lee


Hylander    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 2:28 PM
  I think the mind set of the sailing fraternity at
sea is slightly different to the mindset of us
Broads Boat owners. In these times of litigation
claims , who is going to allow someone to cross
their boat.     They could trip up, Fido could bark
at them or worse.   Then claim from you - no way.    
In an emergency no one would refuse anyone to lay up
beside them.      As has been said umpteen times ,
why should owners allow a load of drunks turning up
late and demanding that they moor against them, to
do so, if you agree with that scenario then you are
living in a dream world.

The matter was decided upon last year and that is ,
you have to ask first and not just assume that you
can lay along side anyone's boat for whatever
reason.    


In case new hirers are reading this - no you do not
have to move.




Women dont nag they just point
things out...



M


This message was edited by Hylander on Jan-12-15 @ 2:29 PM


BuffaloBill    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 2:38 PM
  "Please speak to the people on board the other boat about
mooring alongside before doing so"
Page 157....I'm sorry but that gives the impression that
it will be ok to moor alongside and just informing them
that you will be doing so!
In my opinion that should read:-
"Please ask the people on board the other boat if it's
ok to moor alongside before doing so"
This subject caused a huge amount of 'dialogue' in
2012 and was the reason that the BA changed their
stance on the idea.
There are certain groups of 'holiday makers' I don't
want mooring alongside us, and I don't need to go
into it further here.
Also there are certain types of craft that are unsuitable
to moor against due to their differing styles, such as
lack of walkways around the boat or even having the
stanchions with wire ropes through which can trip
up the unwary.(We had our stanchions bent last year
by someone using them to pull their much larger
boat alongside)
That's without having someone climbing about on your
boat after coming back late at night when you have
already gone to bed.
And before someone starts giving me grief over that
statement, I do allow it but it will be my choice not theirs.
I'm sorry Darkhorse but there's NO bylaw saying you
have to let them moor alongside or you have to move to on.

The older I get...
The better I was....!!


Paladine    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 3:13 PM
 
Richardson's have actually made the booklet available to read online. Click here to read it.

And, yes, page 157 does read as Dzign has posted   Mad

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


Exile    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 3:23 PM
  " I think the mind set of the sailing fraternity at
sea is slightly different to the mindset of us
Broads Boat owners. "

Almost but not quite totally correct Hylander. I think that if you had left out the "at sea" part it would have been pretty spot on.
Many Broads sailors (probably most) have sailed at sea too, got the all in it together culture, prefer it that way, so practise it on inland waters too.
Some Broads cruiser owners and many hirers buy into that culture too.

So overall visitors do stand a reasonable chance of getting a double mooring.


kfurbank    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 4:07 PM
  I am genuinely surprised that anyone who has taken the time to look at this booklet doesn't have more positive things to say about it. Yes there is one inaccuracy, maybe even more, but on the whole it is a very well written advertisement for the area, with a lot of good useful advice. The one inaccuracy could well be a genuine mistake that Richardsons would appreciate having pointed out to them direct, rather than an attack on a forum, indeed not even the forum they regularly post on!!!

As usual the one negative gets given far more bad press than the many good points contained within the publication. Well done.

There is much good advice contained within the publication, which if read might just prevent some of the mishaps regularly seen during the season. Maybe even some pride and joys may go unscraped this year as a result of this guide.

Happy to support the honest and reliable pubs and businesses of The Norfolk Broads.


Paladine    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 4:28 PM
 
With all due respect, the publication itself was not the topic of the thread, the incorrect information regarding double mooring (which created quite a storm not so long ago) was.

I only found and read the on-line version about an hour ago, but my previous post at 11.42 am today was, I thought, positive.

That said, the information issued by the BA to the boat hire industry in 2013 (see pdf attached to my 11.42am post) is not that which is stated in the Richardson's brochure. There is no excuse, except carelessness, for the inclusion of that misleading information in the brochure.

While the brochure might well be a clever and polished piece of advertising, I suggest that double mooring is more likely to be a bone of contention than where to dine/walk/fish/visit, so it deserves to be treated with a bit more accuracy.

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


kfurbank    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 4:46 PM
  Bear in mind that the guide is aimed at hirers and reread it in the context of a hirer. It says "please speak to the people on board the other boat about mooring alongside before doing so" The last paragraph is Richardsons advice to their hirers, which is who the guide is aimed at. I don't see a problem with that if Richardsons don't mind.

The technical talk section contains some 22 pages of useful help and advice.

The guide is also free and even free to download.

I wonder how many people on here will download it via the link above, despite it's "inaccuracy"?

This thread may not have been started about the publication, but that doesn't mean that a thread couldn't have been started praising the publication. Instead having got all the way to page 157 someone then decided to start a negative post against Richardsons.



Happy to support the honest and reliable pubs and businesses of The Norfolk Broads.


Dzign    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 4:46 PM
  Exile, I think that you will find most coastal boaters expect an exchange of insurance details and a competent repair being effected.. rather than the bodge up some people on this forum have been offered after damage has been caused to their boats by other craft.
Also telling people not to worry about bumps and damage to the boats as it will be sorted when the boat is returned and is not a problem...... this cannot be in any way helpful

Lee

This message was edited by Dzign on Jan-12-15 @ 6:23 PM


Limbury1    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 6:03 PM
  What happens when the people on the moored boat are not there to ask, not being funny just a question.

Limbury 1
If you can't see it it's not there ,if you
can see it , it's still not there,the world
is all Illusion.


kfurbank    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 6:09 PM
  Common courtesy says you look elsewhere to moor if permission cannot be gained first.

Happy to support the honest and reliable pubs and businesses of The Norfolk Broads.


Mercator    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 6:57 PM
 

my opinion , the booklet is aimed at the Richardson's hirers. Giving advise for hire boats , sadly there appears to be no footnote explaining that this policy is for hire boats only and privately owned craft can and do refuse and are currently within BA regs to do so. Currently  We do not have to leave the mooring if we refuse.

pity richo's did not put a footnote re private craft as they are spending a kings ransom on their new private moorings at Horning
cake and eat it ?   hindsight is a wonderful tool .

so is it out with the sticky labels on page 157  Evil Grin

Maggie
x



Steve & Maggie.


Not quite an ancient mariner ..... though some say he was at sea before Pontius was a pilate !


rickh    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 7:59 PM
  Yes u should ask , no u shouldn't go ahead and moor next to another boat if there's no one onboard , just common decency that's all , and incidently all this is just reinforcing why I cruise the southern rivers its a lot less hassle Smile  , I have however had both private and hire boats alongside in the past  and no problems at all .
All in all a badly incorrectly worded document that should been more thoroughly checked before publication .

Richard


kfurbank    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 8:26 PM
  Quote "All in all a badly incorrectly worded document that should been more thoroughly checked before publication ."

Can I ask have you read the publication? I mean actually read the whole document?

There are some 22 pages of technical talk. Much of which if read and followed by the hirers will make their holiday more pleasant as well as make the rivers safer for us all. Including less bumps and scrapes all round.

ONE person has chosen to highlight the ONE possibly badly worded piece of advice to hirers and this document is slated!!!!!

The rest of the publication does a very good job of promoting the various villages, pubs, shops and businesses around Broadland. oh and its FREE to download.

Thanks for the reminder guys. Happy New Year. Bye.

Happy to support the honest and reliable pubs and businesses of The Norfolk Broads.


rickh    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 9:01 PM
  No kfurbank iv not read it all why would I its not aimed at private owners , it still holds inaccurate advice and statements  and thats a fact , a large company such as richardsons should do better simple as that , thousands of people hire from them every yr therefore the need for accurate information , ok it mat have created a largish response from members but the fact is it is in this case badly worded and inaccurate , so the rest of it Is fine that doesn't make up for inaccurate misleading sections no matter how good the rest is ,  

Richard


Paladine    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 9:16 PM
 
ONE person has chosen to highlight the ONE possibly badly worded piece of advice to hirers and this document is slated!!!!!

23 posts and the only adverse comments about the publication have been:

1.Feel that this could create some friction at times, that it is badly worded and wrong

2.This information looks like it is based on BA's rules from three years ago, which have been ammended to say, only with the other boats permission.
No moving off required. Unless BA have back peddled.

3.I’m thinking that the printing date was after the time the BA initially promulgated its policy of compulsory double-mooring, but before the change of that policy. Understandable if Richardson’s didn’t want the expense of a complete re-print, but hardly excusable.

4.That is clearly totally wrong information.

5.my opinion , the booklet is aimed at the Richardson's hirers. Giving advise for hire boats , sadly there appears to be no footnote explaining that this policy is for hire boats only and privately owned craft can and do refuse and are currently within BA regs to do so. Currently  We do not have to leave the mooring if we refuse.

pity richo's did not put a footnote re private craft

6. There is no excuse, except carelessness, for the inclusion of that misleading information in the brochure.

7. All in all a badly incorrectly worded document that should been more thoroughly checked before publication .


I would hardly call that slating, let alone slating!!!!!

Is the information given in the brochure about double mooring correct? No, it isn’t, and it is fair comment to say so. No.7 is a rather sweeping statement, the first part with which I do not agree. One error does not nullify the otherwise good quality of the brochure, but it is that error that was being discussed. Which of comments 1 to 6 above are unjustified or inaccurate?


Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


rickh    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 9:32 PM
  Yea ur right paladine , it was a rather sweeping statement , but In my defence I used to work for brooms Wink   , thing is after last yr u would have thought richardsons would have been extremely accurate in the info to customers .

Richard


DanHorner    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 9:50 PM
  160 pages of brand new publication with a couple of things "wrong" or not worded quite as perfectly as you want them....

Great they're spending the money into things that keep the place going when no-one else is doing these things.

All helps keep the infrastructure you enjoy going  (and gives something to 'talk' about! Wink

Dan

http://www.fbwilds.horning.org.uk (My website on the Caribbean bathtub!)
http://www.dhorner.horning.org.uk (My General Boating Website)


Richard    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 9:54 PM
  I totally agree with kfurbank and danhorner, a very minor point of possible error, what's the big deal????


Paladine    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 10:09 PM
 
The BA consulted with the Hire Boat Federation and issued an advice for hirers, which I have specified in a previous post. The largest hire company on the Broads publishes something that is totally at odds with that advice, stating "...if you are already moored at a Broads Authority 24 hour mooring which allows double mooring. You must allow another boat to moor alongside if there is insufficient room for other boats to moor alongside the bank, or you must leave the mooring..."

Storm in a teacup...until someone insists on double mooring against you regardless of your wishes, waving said brochure in your face. The answer, of course, is that the advice only relates to Richardson's boats.

But then again, how many hirers actually read all the bumf?



Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


This message was edited by Paladine on Jan-12-15 @ 10:10 PM


TerryTibbs    -- Jan-12-2015 @ 10:13 PM
  I agree totally Pally,imagine your at a mooring and a group of slightly inebriated boaters pull up and try to moor up against your boat, they tell you that in that case you have to move? recipe for harmony? I don't think so. Richardsons are failing in their duty of care IMHO.

Dave

Je Suis Charlie


Alone1    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 7:11 AM
  " created by Richardsons and given out for free on the BA stand at the London boat show,".
Do the BA have their own stand at the Boat Show? That must be expensive. Why are they promoting an individual company or are they giving out publicity for all hire boat yards?
Have they had a stand there before?
I have not been this year but dont remember a BA stand in the past.  Question boat-sail

Bob Huppendoun

There would be no life without water!!!


Jean&Brian    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 9:07 AM
  I agree that this could be a very useful and informative publication to be welcomed.

As members of the federation involved in the consultation on the double mooring policy Richardsons can hardly plead ignorance of or misinterpretation of the current policy and are certainly not entitled to decide who it applies to as it applies to all sectors private or hirer, to publish such a fundamental inaccuracy is totally irresponsible and does little for their credibility, if they can get something as fundamental as that statement wrong you do wonder what else they are telling their clients.

             Brian

Member Victor Meldrew Appreciation Society

This message was edited by Jean&Brian on Jan-13-15 @ 9:09 AM


smellyloo    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 9:20 AM
  Blimey what a load of old squit about not a lot!!

I remember loads of threads bemoaning the supposed lack of information given to hirers; NOW when a major player issues a stunning detailed booklet they are critised over one minor point.

Not a good way to encourage participation on this forum by Broadland businesses.


Exile    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 10:22 AM
  " Not a good way to encourage participation on this forum by Broadland businesses. "

Absolutely right Smellyloo.
The negativity to businesses on here will be a big reason that many local businesses do not participate here.
The other side has a good number of posters from the local business community including Richardsons. This forum had quite a lot in the past too. Constant bashing of them for very minor issues (this being a classic case) will inevitably contribute in driving them, and their potential sponsorship, away.






rickh    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 10:58 AM
  Richardsons have their own stands at the show F0001-0005 so why are B A distributing this publication ?? If that's the case , bearing in mind that other hire company's from Norfolk are also exhibiting that a bit unfair , surely it would have been even better if season's did  the distribution of this publication ( when it was corrected ) as they are also there .
Excel whilst I largely agree with your statement about damaging local business by bad reviews etc , I think its inappropriate to come in to a discussion forum and draw comparisons with other forums , if the grass is so much greener there then why do u still post on this forum ? .
The fact is a major hire boat company have got their facts wrong and published it , that shouldn't happen and gives people especially first timers the wrong impression of the regulations , that exile is wat this thread is about in my opinion its not to crucifie richardsons but on the back of last year I for one would have expected a more thorough job before going to print

Richard


Paladine    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 11:23 AM
 
I thought this was primarily a discussion forum. If I am correct in that assumption, it is not the remit of members to modify their opinions so as to express them in terms that will attract advertisers or sponsors. If I am expected to toe the 'party line', not upset any sponsors/advertisers, and express my views in a sycophantic manner, I just won't bother any more.

This thread has had nearly 2000 views in 24 hours. There is a link to the brochure in one of my posts, so I would expect many of those viewers will now have read it, if only to see what the fuss is about. And all that advertising has been for free. I don't think for one moment that any potential hirer would be swayed by anything said on here about what, to many people, will seem to be an irrelevance to their holiday.

Regardless of the merits or demerits of the brochure generally (and I happen to think that, overall, it's a pretty good bit of advertising, both for Richardson's and the Broads), the explanation, on p.157 of the publication, of the BA's policy on double mooring is completely wrong and could lead to confrontation if one of Richardson's customers takes it as gospel.



Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


kfurbank    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 11:29 AM
  One of the three purposes of the BA is "Promoting opportunities for the understanding and enjoyment of the special qualities of the Broads by the public"

I would guess that is why the guide is on the BA stand. The guide does promote Richardsons, along with many other local businesses. It does NOT replace their boating holiday brochure which I would assume is available on the Richardsons stand.

However can I ask, do you know that the Faircraft Loynes brochure is not available on the BA stand? If not, do you know if Faircraft Loynes asked for it to be? Do you know if such a request, if made was refused? Possibly all pertinent questions before suggesting that Richardsons have been shown preference over the other hire yards. I don't know the answers to the questions above, however I would make an educated guess that the publication is on the BA stand because it promotes many businesses, has lots of useful information, contains input from the BA and helps to promote tourism and the Broadland area.

Many of the ideals that prompted Richard to start this forum in the first place. As much as Richard has a vision for the forum, it is ultimately the posters who provide the content and drive its general direction within guidelines maintained by the moderators. Its a shame that more of this forums posters don't share and respect Richard's vision.

Anyone who has actually bothered to read the publication will know that it was edited and put together by Archant. I suspect with Richardsons being the main sponser and quite a few of the other featured businesses paying their share.



Happy to support the honest and reliable pubs and businesses of The Norfolk Broads.


TerryTibbs    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 11:31 AM
  Well said Pally!

Dave Cheers

Je Suis Charlie


Gretzky    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 12:07 PM
  I didnt have a problem with double mooring, until last summer when some nice person moored along side us, hit our boat in the process, causing damamge to the gel coat and then proceded to use the flag pole and hand rail and ripped the screws out! To top it off they then denied all!

Edited because my brain works faster than my fingers.


Dzign    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 12:15 PM
  I never suggested that Richardsons had been given any special treatment by the BA, they had a stall full of leaflets for people to help themselves to, there could well have been a some faircraft leaflets available, when I picked the Richardsons one up I didn't realise it was Richardsons till I read it at home, I also picked up the new Eating out on the Broads brochure.
I didn't vet all the literature on display, sorry.
However I don't care if JC printed it,it's wrong!!!!!  

Lee


Paladine    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 1:35 PM
 
Alone1 wrote "Do the BA have their own stand at the Boat Show? That must be expensive...
Have they had a stand there before?

I have not been this year but dont remember a BA stand in the past"


A very quick search brought up a comment on a blue water site that the poster visted the BA stand at the 2005 London Boat Show, and  this thread on here demonstrates that they were represented at the 2006 show, (sharing a stand,) so it's nothing new.

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


Karen&Mike    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 1:36 PM
  It is NOT a "minor point" when it is you and/or your boat that suffer
some problem or damage as a result of this incorrect information!

And we are not here as a forum to only stroke and pour love upon
the hire companies in the area. Or are we?! It's a mistake, they made
it, they have put themselves in print and therefore in the firing line for
crtiticism over that point. Just because the rest of the  booklet is good
does not make the bad bits OK. Poor agument in my opinion.

Karen

Edit for typo
"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting
off!!"


This message was edited by Karen&Mike on Jan-13-15 @ 2:48 PM


Paladine    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 2:30 PM
 
"...they have put themselves in print and therefore in the firing line for criticism over that point."

One definition of 'criticism' is "the practice of judging the merits and faults of something (or somebody) in an intelligible (or articulate) way." Nothing wrong in that, although, in the context of the forum, personal criticism is something I try to avoid.

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


Exile    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 4:27 PM
  It is the constant drip, drip of negativity that will be putting business off. Small issues like this one are blown up way beyond their importance.
It is in human nature to complain loudly about something we do not like but not say much when service is top notch. But that gives a twisted picture of reality.

A question that perhaps we should ask ourselves is if we each personally owned a Broadland business would we like to advertise and participate here? I know my view on that!
IMHO overall we are far too negative and that distortion must make sponsorship difficult.



This message was edited by Exile on Jan-13-15 @ 4:29 PM


BuffaloBill    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 5:06 PM
  "It is the constant drip, drip of negativity that
will be putting business off."


I don't believe the forum is just for businesses.

"Small issues like this one are blown up way beyond
their importance."


Obviously not or there wouldn't be so much traffic
about on the thread would there? It is important to some
members on here as was demonstrated in the discussions
way back in 2012 which produced a backtrack by the BA!

"A question that perhaps we should ask ourselves
is if we each personally owned a Broadland business
would we like to advertise and participate here? I
know my view on that!"


Surely we can't allow ourselves to be held back in
our comments just in case the businesses don't like
what anyone has to say about them?
I have met Clive Richardson on a few occasions and he
is passionate about the Broads and their business and
apart from that one 'printing error', the new
publication is excellent and long overdue IMHO.
And yes he still liked my 'mentioning' it.

The older I get...
The better I was....!!


Mercator    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 6:50 PM
 

having read the publication from cover to cover , yes it is very good. Shame about the small slips missed in proof reading.

As I said earlier it reads for the hirer . Hiring boats is not a cheap holiday . The holiday makers we have met have all been genuine  folk  who care about the boat they are handling and the boats near them .

Maggie
x

Steve & Maggie.


Not quite an ancient mariner ..... though some say he was at sea before Pontius was a pilate !


shepherd    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 7:00 PM
  My comment is " Well done Richardsons" for taking the time and making the effort of producing this booklet.

Having read on here the number of posts moaning about one unfortunate misleading piece of information I lost count of all the purists who cannot spell !!!


Paladine    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 7:09 PM
 
"It is the constant drip, drip of negativity that will be putting business off. Small issues like this one are blown up way beyond their importance.
It is in human nature to complain loudly about something we do not like but not say much when service is top notch. But that gives a twisted picture of reality.

A question that perhaps we should ask ourselves is if we each personally owned a Broadland business would we like to advertise and participate here? I know my view on that!
IMHO overall we are far too negative and that distortion must make sponsorship difficult."


Richardson's gets a lot of free advertising on here, through members posts and recommendations. I've checked back through posts over the past couple of seasons and have attached a long, long list of positive posts about the company (then stopped looking for them, as I got fed up). So to say that, on here, not much is said when service is top notch is inaccurate, to put it mildly. Hardly a 'constant drip, drip of negativity', either.

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


Karen&Mike    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 7:13 PM
  But Shepherd, we are mere commentators,  not a big business who
have to expect some gyp when there is a published error under their
name.

It's tough at the top . Smile

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting
off!!"
[/size
Edited not due to spelling mistakes! Lol. But for clarity as there had
been a post in between.


This message was edited by Karen&Mike on Jan-13-15 @ 7:16 PM


Stranger    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 7:39 PM
  I cant believe all the griping about such a small subject, personally as a hirer from several boatyards inluding Richardsons i wouldent dream about asking to double moor against another boat as no doubt someone somewhere will want to move or do something that involves the double moored boat being moved if two or three boats are out together fair enough and most boat owners wouldent want other boats moored alongside unless they are together with another party so if the moorings are full tough titty find somewhere else to moor and stop bickering about such a small mistake by Richardsons who bring a lot of joy to people who cant afford their own boat    

have a nice day all the best Dave


Stingers    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 8:30 PM
  Shepherd: Well said and I fully agree with you on both points.

Andy


Jean&Brian    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 8:40 PM
  With all due respect it isn't a small subject and it isn't about the rights or wrongs of double mooring or anything else, its about Richardson`s stating as fact a policy the hire boat federation wanted the BA to instigate which the BA later rescinded presumably on legal advise, all that's required is for Richardson`s to acknowledge they made a mistake and blank out the offending paragraph, minimal expense no witch hunt and respect for admitting an error has been made, you get no respect for being arrogant and refusing to admit a mistake when it is obvious.

       Brian

Member Victor Meldrew Appreciation Society


Karen&Mike    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 9:07 PM
  It is not a requirement for a member of an internet based forum to
have a perfect command of the English language, nor does it
preclude them from making a comment, or make that view invalid.

However, there is a requirement for a business in this particular
situation to ensure that  published advice given to its customers is
correct, and accurately represents any relative regulations or by-
laws.

Perhaps anyone who can't understand that, may have a bigger
problem than those who cannot spell?! Yes I am being a tad
wicked...

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting
off!!"


This message was edited by Karen&Mike on Jan-13-15 @ 9:09 PM


Exile    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 9:10 PM
  If Richardsons get so much free advertising and such good reports here I wonder why they do not participate in this forum whilst they do elsewhere?
I do not know the answer to that myself, it could be for various reasons. Maybe nothing to do with comments on here, maybe just for that very reason...

But given that they and a lot of other Broads companies do not post here but do elsewhere there must have some reason. Especially as quite a few of them did previously.


Paladine    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 9:20 PM
 
Exile, I am sorely tempted to give you a very honest answer, but to do so would require me to comment on other forums, so I will keep my own counsel...this time  Evil Grin

But I can only think of two Broads companies that have switched allegiance, as it were. Hardly 'a lot'. But that subject is simply a diversion and irrelevant to the issue of misleading information being published.


Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


This message was edited by Paladine on Jan-13-15 @ 9:30 PM


rickh    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 9:21 PM
  Yes I agree completely Brian ( bet u never thought u would hear that Wink  ) , and yes Karen nothing to do with spelling n iv gota be one of the worst Frown  but of spelling makes a post not worthy then so be it , bring it on spelling police who cares Wink  .
All this needs is a correction as it is wrongly worded in that area of the document , yes the rest of is good and hats of for doing it in the first place but correct the inaccuracy regarding double mooring .
Ah well Hopefuly spelt correctly otherwise I might get some lines :o  .

Richard


rickh    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 9:37 PM
  Exile regarding the constant drip of negativity , have u made a positive post on this thread  ? As I said earlier if the "other place " is so wonderful why post on here ? There is no negativity towards richardsons , all anyone who has posted what you class as negativity is asking for is the correct information to be supplied to richardsons clients surely you can see that ? Just because somwone has got a different opinion to yours doesn't make them negative , damaging to business or wrong , it mearly means they have a different Outlook on that subject .
spot the in deliberate typo Wink  

Richard


kfurbank    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 10:12 PM
  Quote "all that's required is for Richardson`s to acknowledge they made a mistake and blank out the offending paragraph, minimal expense no witch hunt and respect for admitting an error has been made, you get no respect for being arrogant and refusing to admit a mistake when it is obvious."

Brian, Have you spoken to Richardsons and made your request?

Quote"all anyone who has posted what you class as negativity is asking for is the correct information to be supplied to richardsons clients surely you can see that ? "

Richard, Who are you asking? Have you spoken personally to Richardsons?

The publication in question is aimed at Richardsons customers, NOT privateers. It does not claim to quote the byelaws, just advice, much of it very good.

It DOES state that you should speak first to the people on board before going alongside another boat. Bearing in mind that it is aimed at Richardsons customers, and that Richardsons are the owners of the boats, it also says that if you are already moored at a mooring that allows double mooring, you must allow another boat to moor alongside or move etc. This is advice to Richardsons customers about the use of Richardsons boats. Specifically it DOES NOT state that if you approach a moored boat, they have to let you moor alongside, and that if they refuse they have to move on and make room for you. There is a subtle, BUT very big difference between the two.

What right do any of you think you have to dictate to Richardsons how they operate their fleet, or what restrictions or advice they choose to place upon their hirers about the use of their boats.

The pomposity and arrogance of some of the posters on here is beyond belief at times.

How many of the people posting on here who claim to be genuinely concerned about the issue of double mooring have actually expressed their concerns to Richardsons? or are they just content to bad mouth Richardsons from behind a keyboard?

Happy to support the honest and reliable pubs and businesses of The Norfolk Broads.


MorningSwan    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 10:24 PM
  There is not a lot left to be said re: this subject, it's all a very sad
reflection on what otherwise is a very informative forum,

I cannot, nor wish to add more but do suggest that some read an
intelligent article on the subject of critism and critics that was posted
elsewhere.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/201404/whats-wrong-criticism


Farewell NBF

Edited to correct link

This message was edited by MorningSwan on Jan-13-15 @ 10:41 PM


Jean&Brian    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 10:43 PM
  All due respect Keith but while this may be primarily intended for Richardsonson`s customers the way it has been distributed so far makes it available to anyone.

Why publish anything that is contrary to BA policy and unenforceable, we are constantly being told they cannot be held responsible for the behaviour of their customers when on the river so how are they going to enforce this.

As I understand it from his posts on another forum Clive is well aware of what`s been said on here apart from any personal communications they may have received and I am sure more than capable of speaking for himself.

            Brian

Member Victor Meldrew Appreciation Society


Paladine    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 10:54 PM
 
”Specifically it DOES NOT state that if you approach a moored boat, they have to let you moor alongside, and that if they refuse they have to move on and make room for you.”

The actual wording is "If you are already moored at a Broads Authority 24 hour mooring which allows double mooring you must allow another boat to moor alongside if there is insufficient room for other boats to moor alongside the bank, or you must leave the mooring."

Perhaps I’m nit picking, but, as the person who is already moored, I am being told that I must either allow someone to moor against me or move on. So would the latecomer, having read that advice, not be thinking ‘if he won’t let me double moor, he’s got to move on’?

I’m sorry, but whether it is viewed from the moored person’s perspective or the latecomer’s, the message is the same – you must either allow double-mooring or move on – which is NOT the policy of the BA in respect of their 24 hour moorings.

” What right do any of you think you have to dictate to Richardsons how they operate their fleet, or what restrictions or advice they choose to place upon their hirers about the use of their boats.”

If this approach to their clients double mooring anywhere was simply company policy, I would have less to say, but the inclusion of the words "If you are already moored at a Broads Authority 24 hour mooring which allows double mooring…” suggests that it is BA policy and the use of the word ‘must’ indicates an enforceable condition. So what right does a private company have to make up, and promulgate, their own (incorrect) interpretation of BA mooring policy?

kfurbank, no-one has tried to dictate how the fleet should be run. The use of such hyperbole merely detracts from the argument. I think you’ll find that Richardson’s are well aware of this thread and the only public statement I have read is that an updated version will be available for next year’s customers.


Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


Paladine    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 11:01 PM
 
MorningSwan, have you actually read the article to which you provided a link? It deals with the psychology of personal criticism within a close personal relationship. Hardly relevant to the impersonal criticism taking place here of incorrect information being published by a company.

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


Karen&Mike    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 11:07 PM
  So, some people make a fuss  about some other people whom they consider are making a fuss. Hmn. Interesting.

Why some folk are so affronted by a few "ordinary" folk daring to pick up on a published innacuracy  by a large local business amazes me! The inference is " how dare they? " And it's rather distasteful in my opinion.

Karen





"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting off!!"


Uncle_Nobby    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 11:17 PM
  Very well said.


rickh    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 11:24 PM
  Kfurbank , yes iv emailed richardsons thanks for asking , I'm not bad mouthing anyone all I'm asking for is that publications that are available to everyone not just richardsons clients be with In current NA policy , u can turn it around to wat u want but the way Its been interpreted by most people is the way reads , think of this when a similar thing happened last yr that was corrected so explain why this shouldn't its incorrect and misleading.  Not only that it could lead to possible confrontations should the person reading it read it in the same way as the very vast majority of the posters on this thread , it is not arrogant or anything else to have a different opinion , n you know the sad part is a few are leaving because they think its better on the other forums. That's something there entitled to but don't make such a song and dance about it just do it , at the end of the day this is a discussion forum and that's what is happening discussion .

Richard


MorningSwan    -- Jan-13-2015 @ 11:36 PM
  Last post from me on this or any other subject Mr Paladine I no longer wish to be involved with this arena.

YES, I have read the entire document, Yes I entirely agree that the page in question is questionable but oddly I agree that overall it is a pretty good guide for the uninitiated.

Just wish some didn't have such a low opinion of most of the visitors to the broads and air those thoughts so publicly..

Other than that if you after our last exchange or anyone else has any issues with what I said I am not difficult to get hold of for debate or discussion face to face in real life. Not through pseudonyms or other imaginary names.


Karen&Mike    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 12:06 AM
  Well I guess with the name Morning Swan you will  be the only one in
the phone book. Is that your first and surname or just a double
barrelled surname ?  Evil Grin  

Karen

"Wind up the elastic band Karen - we're setting
off!!"


This message was edited by Karen&Mike on Jan-14-15 @ 12:09 AM


readyabout    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 12:37 AM
 
quote:"......Why some folk are so affronted by a few "ordinary" folk daring to pick up on a published innacuracy  by a large local business amazes me!......."

Well, it shouldn't.

Virtually every book or pamphlet I've ever read has got some inaccuracy, somewhere in the text.

That's why you have reprints, editions, impressions, amendments etc.

I'm sure that this 'large, local business' will do the necessary in the fullness of time without a load of pedants screaming at them from their keyboards.

As for double mooring, this has been accepted for decades the world over with little fuss or bother; without it cruising would be in chaos.

In the fullness of time, even the Broads with its scarcity of moorings and growth in boat numbers, will no doubt have to come to accept the inevitable - hopefully, with good grace....

Regards

Paul
______________________
  ~ Paul and Mary Afloat ~


Uncle_Nobby    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 1:19 AM
  "without a load of pedants screaming at them from their keyboards."

Isn't this saying the same as this, or have I mis-read one of these?

"......Why some folk are so affronted by a few "ordinary" folk daring to
pick up on a published innacuracy  by a large local business amazes
me!......."

(which I agree with)

This message was edited by Uncle_Nobby on Jan-14-15 @ 1:20 AM


MorningSwan    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 2:28 AM
  PM sent to Karen and Mike(moderators) Re breach of terms and conditions, ie, insulting or abusive post to members. Not on people, their post was presumptive I use my boat name and my real name and am easy to get hold of if someone really wants to.

Enough of pedants and ego seeking people, there are better way and better people to be socialising with.

Paul Hayden
Morning Swan.
Moored Acle Dyke.
Telephone 07771964705
NO SECRETS HERE



Steve51    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 6:50 AM
  Morning Swan, Paul, I can't see any breach of TOS in Karen's post. There is nothing in that post that is either insulting or abusive. If anything, my interpretation is that she was attempting to inject a little humour.

Regarding the rest of this thread it seems to be less a case of people attacking Ricardsons and more a case of people attacking others who have merely raised a point.

That is the way of an open discussion forum and so long as it doesn't get too personal, that's exactly what it should be. If we all agreed with each other all of the time, it would soon become a very boring place.

Steve. CM1


Marshman    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 9:30 AM
  To be fair to some posters who have expressed surprise at the level of posts and the intensity of the discussion, its all about in reality, the depth of the winter and nothing else better to post about!!!! in reality probably just a lot of 'ol squit about not a lot!!!!


smellyloo    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 9:41 AM
  Karen of Karen&mike wrote "Why some folk are so affronted by a few "ordinary" folk daring to pick up on a published innacuracy  by a large local business amazes me! The inference is " how dare they? " And it's rather distasteful in my opinion."

Could equally say:-

Why some folks are so affronted by a few "ordinary" folk daring to point out that the issue being debated is of minor importance amazes me! The inference is "how dare they? "And it's rather distasteful in my opinion"

There are usually two sides to every story .....You might not aggree with the other side but please respect their right to aire their views.




Exile    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 9:49 AM
  In truth Marshman if you removed the word "probably" from your last point you would be exactly right.


Paladine    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 10:17 AM
 
At 2,000 views a day, this bit of ole squit is certainly generating a lot of interest in (not to mention traffic to) this site. Some people are highly critical, others supportive, both of the brochure and of the reaction to the error in it. What I find very encouraging is that, with a few very minor exceptions, the discussion has been conducted in a civilised manner, which is a credit to the forum. It is reassuring that members can express strongly felt, if opposing, opinions, without resorting to the personal abuse, which has, unfortunately, been a blight in the past.

It appears that the on-line version of the brochure will be altered shortly, to reflect the actual BA double mooring policy. What this 'storm-in-a-teacup' has achieved (intentionally or not) is a wider audience for what is, overall, a very well-prepared and executed advertisement, not just for Richardson's, but for numerous other Broads businesses and, most importantly, The Norfolk and Suffolk Broads.

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


Exile    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 10:38 AM
  For the few that saw this as a problem Richardsons are sorting it as Paladine pointed out.
However I suspect that it is as a result of the thread that covered this issue on the site Richardsons patronise.
A whole different tone was adopted there in line with the stance taken by the owner of this site in his one post on this thread.
Perhaps something we should consider in the future?


Paladine    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 11:00 AM
 
"For the few that saw this as a problem Richardsons are sorting it as Paladine pointed out.
However I suspect that it is as a result of the thread that covered this issue on the site Richardsons patronise.

A whole different tone was adopted there in line with the stance taken by the owner of this site in his one post on this thread.

Perhaps something we should consider in the future?"


Forgive me if I give in to temptation and break my rule, just this once. Reading through the posts that set the "tone" elsewhere, 25% of them were direct attacks against this site. I do not intend to open a discussion about how other forums behave, that is a matter entirely for them and their members. But neither do I believe we have any lessons to learn from other forums regarding behaviour. This has been a lively discussion, which has taken place with plenty of interesting and valid opinions being aired. A good example, going forward to the new season.

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


This message was edited by Paladine on Jan-14-15 @ 11:01 AM


TerryTibbs    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 11:02 AM
  "For the few that saw this as a problem Richardsons are sorting it as Paladine pointed out.
However I suspect that it is as a result of the thread that covered this issue on the site Richardsons patronise.
A whole different tone was adopted there in line with the stance taken by the owner of this site in his one post on this thread.
Perhaps something we should consider in the future?"

Now that is a load of old bullsquit Exy and you know it. If you look at Clives posturing the first time the debate here is mentioned you will see he thought there was absolutely nothing wrong with the wording and as all but 1 or 2 people max totally agreed with him, why would what was on that forum have any bearing on Richo's decision to revise the online copy?
This is not in anyway an attack on any other forum or on Richardsons it is simply stating facts. I think in general the publication by Richardsons is brilliant, the advice given and the statement made was factually wrong, Richardsons have accepted that and are changing it, fact. End os story.

Dave




Je Suis Charlie


Dibbler    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 11:12 AM
  Dave, Cheers

John


Exile    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 12:25 PM
  I did not read it like that TT.

Most there (as here, including our owner) saw it as no biggy.... but one or two issues were pointed out over there about an otherwise excellent publication which Richardsons have said they will address as soon as it is practical to do so.

An alternative to the thunder generated here a quiet e-mail to the company would have no doubt given the same result. Or even a respectful, factual pointing out of the issue on this forum and give them time to deal with it.
Softly, softly, catchy monkey....

I do agree with Paladine that there were one or two iffy comments made about some on this forum after the initial three or so pages. That is regrettable and in my view not appropriate.
We hold the higher ground on that one but I do think that they trumped us on the general approach and tone of the comments. Hence my point about future threads.



Exile    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 12:26 PM
  I did not read it like that TT.

Most there (as here, including our owner) saw it as no biggy.... but one or two issues were pointed out over there about an otherwise excellent publication which Richardsons have said they will address as soon as it is practical to do so.

An alternative to the thunder generated here a quiet e-mail to the company would have no doubt given the same result. Or even a respectful, factual pointing out of the issue on this forum and give them time to deal with it.
Softly, softly, catchy monkey....

I do agree with Paladine that there were one or two iffy comments made about some on this forum after the initial three or so pages. That is regrettable and in my view not appropriate.
We hold the higher ground on that one but I do think that they trumped us on the general approach and tone of the comments. Hence my point about future threads.



BuffaloBill    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 1:00 PM
  "I do agree with Paladine that there were one or two
iffy comments made about some on this forum after the
initial three or so pages"


And one of those was a member of this forum too!
(No names then I don't fall foul of T.O.S.)

The older I get...
The better I was....!!


This message was edited by BuffaloBill on Jan-14-15 @ 1:02 PM


rickh    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 1:01 PM
  Mmm I see the word majority has been replaced by the word FEW theses days. Come on exile are u seriously thinking that just a FEW posters were disappointed that a major hire company would release a document with some inaccurate information , using Richard as an example isn't realy fair is it ? Lots of people agree or disagree on various subjects that's life and passions can run high on some subjects on THIS FORUM , personally I dont care what's discussed over there as if I did I would join , but theres no need to inject the thoughts of other forums on this one , this is not directly outlined at u exile but to others  too if u like the opinions expressed on the other forums the post there everyone is happy then ,
Iv looked closely at the details ( I did I promise ) and no way can I see that its few its clearly the MAJORITY that have posted on THIS FORUM in support of having the booklet amended .

Richard


TerryTibbs    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 1:03 PM
  "And one of those was a member of this forum too"
Most of them are members here bill Smile

Dave Cheers

Je Suis Charlie


Exile    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 1:53 PM
  I am perfectly happy on this forum thanks Rickh and have always been. I see no reason why just because I disagree with some that it means that I should leave.
I choose to only post here but I do read other forums as it helps to give the big picture.
I think that plenty of others do the same.

On the MAJORITY / FEW comment. I just glanced back through the thread to see if I was wildly out. On an admittedly quick count (so may be one or two out) of those that thought this was a big issue or not..... Those that DID NOT pipped it by one. Either way no clear winner.
Given that those who thought this a "bad thing" are more likely to comment than those that see no issue here, I think that I am on pretty solid ground with my first statement.

TT. Respect for your Tag line.


Paladine    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 2:16 PM
 
I've taken a more careful count, and, of those members who expressed an opinion about the error in the brochure, 12 were adversely critical, 9 were not. Whether or not it was a 'big issue' wasn't the subject of the discussion. I would say that those figures show it was a pretty balanced debate. If everyone agrees (or disagrees), what is there to discuss?

At the end of the day, we all win. Richardson's and other Broads businesses (and the Broads) have had additional publicity via extra exposure of the brochure; the error will be corrected; we have been able to air our views in a civilised manner; and the forum has attracted a good deal of interest. What's not to like?



Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


rickh    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 2:41 PM
  Exile I simply stated that if u were unhappy with this forums members , the way things are discussed and the topics discussed then why go u involved yourself , I did not say u should leave do please refrain from miss quoting me , u have in the past regular as clock work lifted parts of my posts and reposted them so why not on this occasion ,
Your quote this morning regarding the FEW has even by yourself been seen to be inaccurate but by making that incorrect assumption u cause further disagreement and discord .
What happens on other forums has no real bearing on this one , this was a subject brought to light by a member , discussed , delt with, and THE MAJORITY are happy as to the out come n that is that .  

Richard


Exile    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 4:10 PM
  Paladine,
I had counted them as 11 to 10 the other way (leaving out one or two that I was not sure of) but as I had said it was more of a quick glance than an audit. So I will happily defer to your figures.
Actually when you check the numbers on things like this it is only a tiny minority of us that comment at all. Given that we have 11,000 members  Wink  with only about 20 posting it is the tiniest of straw polls with virtually no one being interested either way.
I guess that applies to most issues.

Rickh wrote,
" I did not say u should leave do please refrain from miss quoting me "

I must have misunderstood then because earlier in the thread he also wrote the three following statements in separate posts.


" As I said earlier if the "other place " is so wonderful why post on here "

" I think its inappropriate to come in to a discussion forum and draw comparisons with other forums , if the grass is so much greener there then why do u still post on this forum "

" if u like the opinions expressed on the other forums the post there everyone is happy then "






This message was edited by Exile on Jan-14-15 @ 4:11 PM


Marshman    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 4:19 PM
  You could also say I am losing the plot  AND the will to live!!!!!! Smile


rickh    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 4:46 PM
  Exile At the risk of repeating myself yet again Frown  where does it say that I stated u should leave ??????  Those comments as u well know were made on the back of you comparing this forum with others and stating that this forum and the people who posted on here stating that the wording of this document in respect of the double mooring issue were wrong to do so , that is your opinion that's fine , wats not fine is when members are compared to members on other forums , nore is it fine that people are miss quoted as I have never said u should leave , I mearly asked the question that if u believe others do it better then why do u post here n that is all I said , this discussion took place because of a failing to get things completely correct n was not as some seam to think a witch hunt IMHO , the situation is resolved now and things will or have been corrected , my question is this Exile would u perfer that matter that concern a lot of members of this forum and are important were not discussed for fear of upsetting  other people and companys ??? , as iv said before as have others this is a discussion forum .

Richard


kfurbank    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 5:42 PM
  Quote "this discussion took place because of a failing to get things completely correct n was not as some seam to think a witch hunt IMHO , the situation is resolved now and things will or have been corrected"

At the risk of stating the obvious, I don't think Richardsons will be destroying any of it's current print run, Smile  nor should they IMHO. It will still be handed out at the boat show, where I'm sure it will be gratefully received. Looking forward to collecting my collectors edition tomorrow. Wink

So apart from some members casting a shadow over this forum yet again, what has been achieved? Well I guess the online version will probably be changed in a few days time, though I'm happy to stick with the one I have currently downloaded. Wink   Cheers

When there is a complaint about food or service at a pub or restaurant on here, how many times do you read the same replies, "did you mention it to them at the time?" "Did you let them know and give them a chance to put it right at the time?" "Have you since put your concerns in writing to them?" "what did they say when you complained?"

Whether or not Richardsons made a minor error, in what is otherwise an excellent publication, there were far better ways and manners of highlighting it to them, than on a forum they don't participate in.


Happy to support the honest and reliable pubs and businesses of The Norfolk Broads.


Paladine    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 6:10 PM
 
"...there were far better ways and manners of highlighting it to them, than on a forum they don't participate in. "

Tempted to break my rule again...but I won't   tounge-in-cheek


Presumably, it's OK to hand out plaudits on a forum they don't participate in, though   Confused   Funny old world, isn't it.

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


This message was edited by Paladine on Jan-14-15 @ 11:24 PM


kfurbank    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 6:17 PM
  To save you breaking your rule Wink  what I meant was, all the editorial contacts are on page 3 of the publication. Richardsons also have a phone number, as well as an email address, and yes they also participate in another forum as well. I haven't checked, but I bet there's even a contact us section somewhere on their website.

Happy to support the honest and reliable pubs and businesses of The Norfolk Broads.


Paladine    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 6:26 PM
 
kfurbank, pm sent.

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


Bruyere    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 7:26 PM
  O.o

Kevin
(Reed Runner)


TerryTibbs    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 7:57 PM
  Pally, your posts are so incisive and well researched I really wish there was a like button on here!

Exy, Thanks for the comment it is an honour to post on the same forum!

Rickh your like me, you can't spell your grammers not aleays the best but your passionate about the Broads and boating!

Dibbs, you really are the best moderator on any forum your the reason I stay here!

Dave
Cheers

Je Suis Charlie


batrabill    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 7:58 PM
  Bruyere. Finally some sense..

What a knicker twist storm in a huffy grumpy why-oh-why pile of twaddle.


Really nice booklet though. Well done Richardsons.

Bill


rickh    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 8:17 PM
  Yea ur so right Dave we realy need a like button Smile  , seems u have me pretty much spot on not the best in spelling even though auto correct is on Wink   but yea I'm very passionate about my adopted home ,all in all a excellent post n in deed it is an honour Smile  . Right gota go iv got an English lesson   Playful

Richard


ptg    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 9:29 PM
  Ah the perils of double mooring!!

Never mind all this griping and moaning about the misinformation contained in a brochure published by a respectable member of the Broads Hire Federation.

What befell me on that fateful evening back in October when Norm Jnr and I made the ill-founded decision to moor my superior Gin Palace against a rust encrusted hulk constructed entirely of pure pig iron really is a salutary lesson to the rest of you putative skippers!!

I accept that Norm, who was at the helm at the time, had consumed several firkins of Watneys Red Barrel and Norwich Bitter during a 9 hour lunchtime session at the Wherry Inn Langley and slightly unsteady on the tiller!! But so what it was wor holidays!!

It was almost dark when we arrived at Reedham Ferry in pursuit of a side on mooring to allow us to supplement our intake of intoxicating liquor by visiting the local alehouse.

Alas there were no spaces along the rickety wooden pontoon to accept my magnificent vessel (due mainly to a number ill positioned wooden hire boats that appeared to have been relics from the Bradbeers Brochure 1967!!).
Never mind Norm, inventive as usual espied the said metal  vessel and attempted to hail the skipper to announce that we were coming alongside but as  there was no response he   expertly drew alongside, and  fendered up as we glided amidships  with supreme precision.

Several hours later,  having succumbed to the charms of the local rock band (The Frivolous Ferrets) wassailing in the local boozer, we returned to Martha V1 in a state of merriment and collapsed into our bunks (well in fact the vibrating hydronically heated water beds befitting of my status!!) and dozed off.

About three hours later I was rudely awoken from my slumbers by the noise of clanking chains and crunching gears followed by a jolt as we pitched forward and began to move in ghostly fashion forwards apparently without power and a helmsman!

Assuming that Norm was sleepswimming again and taking liberties with my boat I leapt out of the bunk and looked aghast as I peered out of the starboard porthole straight into the eyes of what appeared to be a Reverend sat in the front seat of a Morris Minor that was travelling in the same direction as us across the Yare!!

Then it dawned on me!! Norm you stupid Amphibean you’ve shackled us to the Reedham Ferry!!

And to cap it all the bleeding ferryman charged me full price for a return trip!!

Hawaay lads and lasses Its Spring soon. Time to move on !!


I,m a Posh Boy now I own a swanky Gin Palace!

If your sort pass me on the river you have my permission to “parp” in my general direction !!.
Paul


TerryTibbs    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 9:50 PM
  Paul in keeping with my new policy of only posting non confrontational, non controversial postings bordering on being obsequious I was looking for something complimentary to say about your latest offering. The nearest I can manage is, " your b****y bonkers mate", hilarious,may you and Norm live long and prosper!

Dave Cheers

Je Suis Charlie


Exile    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 10:02 PM
 
" if u like the opinions expressed on the other forums the post there everyone is happy then "

I read that (and the others) as suggesting that I posted elsewhere (ie instead of here) because I thought that another forum covered this better than we did here. Sorry if I have in some way misinterpreted what to me seemed pretty clear.

Frankly I do not really care if my opinions do make some unhappy or if others opinions make me unhappy. The very nature of a forum methinks.
I stand by my opinion that on this subject that the "others" achieved a better balance and tone than we on here did. That is certainly not always the case though.
I cannot see any reason not to state that.

I think that I am done here. Smile


TerryTibbs    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 10:37 PM
  Exy, everyones entitled to their opinion, even you Playful Wink

Dave Cheers

Je Suis Charlie


Paladine    -- Jan-14-2015 @ 11:51 PM
 
ptg, that really made me chuckle. Just what we needed, a bit of light relief. When is the book of Norm's adventures being published?

TT, forget the 'like' button...just keep the beers coming  Cheers   Smile

Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association - representing boaters.
You can join here http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/


ptg    -- Jan-15-2015 @ 9:00 PM
  Pally

Glad it made you chuckle!!

But yes i am indeed releasing a compendium of Norms latest escapades later in the year and no doubt it will break all records at Waterstones (especially at the Norwich Branch where the master himself will be personally signing copies).

And in recognition of the release of this literary masterpiece I have decided, in a stupendous display of benevolence, to ensure that the first 20000 copies will be entirely free for those mugs (oops i mean members) who vote for my sublime image in the forthcoming Norfolk Broads 2016 Calendar competition (that’s guaranteed me  the front cover page then!!).

Mr Tibbs, “bonkers” of course dear boy. You have to be mad to post on this forum on a regular basis,  which is not surprising  given  that most of the contributors would be at ease languishing in Bedlam or god forbid “Royston Vasey”!!

Oh and by the way as I leafed through the said Bradbeers brochure I came across a rather sad and antiquated semi derelict “Woodie” that bears a striking resemblance to a certain vessel currently confined to a wet shed at Brooms!!. “Andorra” surely not!!

Ooh err there’s no need for that!!

Quick Norm lets scarper!!I feel that we are about to have an  episode of extreme violence visited upon us by a rabid Yorkie brandishing a 15kg mudweight on a 20 metre length of polypropylene  and he means business !!..................................................................

Crikey too late. Eek Alors!!





I,m a Posh Boy now I own a swanky Gin Palace!

If your sort pass me on the river you have my permission to “parp” in my general direction !!.
Paul


This message was edited by ptg on Jan-15-15 @ 9:01 PM


Dzign    -- Jan-16-2015 @ 9:28 AM
  Hi Paul if we can swop from Waterstones to Wetherspoons I would be interested in a couple please

Lee


kfurbank    -- Jan-16-2015 @ 1:41 PM
  Just to wrap up one piece of miss-information that was propagated on this thread, the BA did not have a stand at the London Boat Show. Having visited the show yesterday I saw no sign of the BA. Just checked the list of official exhibitors at The Boat Show and they aren't listed there either.

Was nice to go onboard both Broadsman 8 and the new Alpha 44 from Faircraft Loynes. Both fitted out extremely nicely, but imho The Broadsman just edged it especially with the headroom in the front cabin.

Also nice to see the rest of Norfolk making quite a splash and standing shoulder to shoulder. Quite a line up of boats from Funnel, Haines, Hardy, Broom along with both NYA and NBS represented.

Happy to support the honest and reliable pubs and businesses of The Norfolk Broads.


Labrador    -- Jan-16-2015 @ 2:19 PM
  Hardy did not have a boat there, those were a Trusty 23 & Trusty 28, built by Windboats Marine

JR

Woof! Woof!


BuffaloBill    -- Jan-16-2015 @ 2:20 PM
  And Sheerline.....(Just 'cos I have one!)

The older I get...
The better I was....!!


Dzign    -- Jan-16-2015 @ 4:31 PM
  Sorry about that k/b but really its irrelevant where the book came from...
I presumed that it was a BA stand as the people that were behind the counter had shirts on that said BA, I didn't take a few paces back to look up at the name above the stand

Lee


TerryTibbs    -- Jan-16-2015 @ 6:08 PM
  How very dare you, you Geordie Shore type person? You may attack
me, you may even make fun of my boat but never, ever make fun of
my home town. Royston Vasey is the greatest spot on Gods earth or
was until you came by cunningly disguised as a female taxi driver,
Barbara? Pah you never fooled me. You had it in for us because my
Mum and Dad who ran the Local shop were slow serving you one
day, for Gods sake they were having problems with a particularly
troublesome little brown fish who now I realise was in fact Norm
carrying out surveilance on your behalf and when Uncle Hilary
refused to sell you any of the special stuff I knew the die was cast.
Well let me tell you this Mr I'm so Posh, I have written to the World
society for the protection of Newts and reported you for poisoning
poor Norm who as you well know is in fact banned from drinking
alchohol after his attacks on the Crested Newt population of the  
Newburybi-pass, did that poor man Swampy ever get over the ordeal
and any way forcing him to drink Watneys Red Barrel and Norwich
Bitter are cruel and unusual punishments and not at all suited to his
delicate system that was brought up on Stones Best Bitter and
Barnsley Bitter with the odd spot of Wards note not Vaux which was
a cheap rip off of the mighty Wards recipe.
I am as we speak having a 12' Bow Sprit fitted to Andorra and that
strappedto 9 tonnes of Mahogany will put paid to your glitzy
collection of Tupperware and Chrome.
See you on the river, or in the Yare for a pint

Dave

Cheers Cheers

Je Suis Charlie

This message was edited by TerryTibbs on Jan-16-15 @ 6:09 PM


ptg    -- Jan-16-2015 @ 7:45 PM
  TT

Aw Gawd and I thought I was potty!!

Thankfully in the immortal words of Edward and Tubbs “You,ll Never leave” means precisely that and we are  safe in the knowledge that  this slightly unhinged Yorkie   will be incarcerated in his wretched hovel for the rest of the season and we won,t have to avoid him at all costs!!

And to think that Newcastle Broon ale is now brewed in Tadcaster!!

Me Owld man will be spinning in his grave in his shotblasters apron!!




I,m a Posh Boy now I own a swanky Gin Palace!

If your sort pass me on the river you have my permission to “parp” in my general direction !!.
Paul


TerryTibbs    -- Jan-16-2015 @ 10:25 PM
  As you well know, PTG after the scandal you caused I had to leave Royston Vasey (oh the shame of it, my familly have lived there since it was founded by Emperor Chubbious Brownious) and move to darkest Derbyshire, this has had the one positive side effect allowing me to roam the country to find the person that brought such ignominy to my beloved home town.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Dave Cheers

Je Suis Charlie


TerryTibbs    -- Jan-16-2015 @ 10:25 PM
  As you well know, PTG after the scandal you caused I had to leave Royston Vasey (oh the shame of it, my familly have lived there since it was founded by Emperor Chubbious Brownious) and move to darkest Derbyshire, this has had the one positive side effect allowing me to roam the country to find the person that brought such ignominy to my beloved home town.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Dave Cheers

Je Suis Charlie


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Topic: http://www.the-norfolk-broads.co.uk/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=22&Topic=36005